Free Discussion 5/21 - 5/27

Please use this post for discussion about the Gosselins that doesn't have a better spot elsewhere. This is where all those I don't know where to post it comments go also. Thank you.

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109 comments:

Amy too said...

That link to a psychologist's view on reality shows is excellent.

Her rise to fame was a shock to her, I do believe that. She was afraid of the throngs of fans, thousands of people lining up for her to sign a book.Needed Security.

So Mansion gets bought, Steve enters pic, Jon goes to barn. Bad move, very bad move. Worse thing TLC and K & J could do.

Why? the show was never about Kate. It was about wife, hubby and 8 kids and stretching a dollar and a Mom who could organize, cook, feed 8 kids at once, keep them all clean, and push her so called lazy husband off the sofa and work, while living in tight quarters with bunk beds. She was exactly what her fan base was, the average woman with a bit of weight and stressed out. So her personality was forgiven.

Then it became about Kate and all Kate. The new Kate, the Star.

The interview and co hosting jobs dried up because all she did was complain and whine about Jon.What happened to her Brand?

She did not make that Brand work as a divorced Mom with 8 kids. Nope.Traveling first class and running around in spike heels.

She trusts no one. We saw her a while back making copies on a Sunday afternoon for the divorce hearing. What assistant? She has babysitters. I'll bet she handles every dollar that comes into that house, every cent.

Her distrust of everyone showed with all of the people who no longer are in those children's lives.

No, Kate is not semi intelligent. She got lucky with those kids being photogenic and the love/hate relationship with Jon and the stress of raising 8 kids.

She blew it and is was All Her, All Her that did it, but it should have been about All OURS and that show might still be on the air.

I do think she fell in love with Steve. When he leaves and he will, she will be toast.

Be glad when we have quiet on the road said...

Gosh Amy too you are right about that. We do get caught up in Kate and her hair and stuff but the whole premise of that show was good and that is how she and Jon made the money.

I agree thought that Kate probably was the boss and threw Jon out because of Steve. Yep.

Live and Learn Katie!

Is there a song "we could have had it all" does that sound familiar to anyone?

O-Hi-O said...

I had a slightly different take on the rationale for the mansion purchase. I believe it's likely K8G began taking herself and new-found fame too seriously and wanted to cash in & start living like the stah! she believed herself to be. I don't believe she wanted the privacy nearly as much as she wanted to start living the life she seems to have always believed she deserved: as someone especially special, as someone who hadn't yet gotten the attention and deference she believed she deserved.

Seems to me, it was this decision to buy the mansion, more than anything else, that killed her own brand. From that move-to-the-mansion point, her branding and the branding of the entire show was shot to hell and has been sliding downhill ever since, with the temporary blip when the pending was announced on camera.

She shot herself in the foot and has been limping pathetically toward her inevitable celebrity death ever since.

She will go unmissed and unmourned. What a witch.

bj said...

I remember whan the deal was that if one in the family want's to quit the show, then it would be over. Then Jon indicated on air that he didn't want another season. The only thing Kate/TLC? could do is kick Jon to the curb.
Now, who wants to quit the show? No one spoke. The kids probably saw mom and dad quarreling over it and they didn't want the same treatment that their dad got.
He wasn't making good decisions, we all know, but in the same circumstances I can't blame him that much. I'm not condoning his behavior, just recognize his desire to break out and not have to deal with her day in and day out.
You know the Canadian Dionne quints that were exploited by the gov't? Well, the Gosselin kids were exploited by their own parent(s). It all is such a shame. My heart goes out to all in the family that are hurting.

kate can't do sh** said...

I agree O-Hi-O. I remember Kate, Jon and the kids sitting around their kitchen table telling them they were moving. Didn't seem like such a big deal. The deal breaker for me was when she was bossing around the moving guys and mugging with the camera that she loved to tell men what to do.... hee hee hee, I'm so funny. hee hee. Next was her famous "mine all mine" line and then bitching so ungraciously about the fridge being so bloody moldy and how could those previous pigs who lived here stand it. That was it for me. I remember that being a turning point. I instantly wanted to punch her in the head. Oh. And her couch scenes justifying her greed for that house by saying "the kids deserve it. It's their house". And the viewers now having to go to the dentist to find out why they were starting to grind their teeth so much. Oh. I forgot the kitchen reno that just HAD to be done right away too. Oh. And the coupon-gate scene. She was a veritable bitch in that scene. Horrid, horrid personality I thought. Ok. I'm done now. But buying that house was the start of her transformation into a greedy, money hungry, fame whore. I need an Advil. My teeth hurt.

Brummygirl said...

Well, well, I finally saw the Philly movie, or should I say the "I'm Kate, see me run (from the spider), see me chat up statues in a place of learning, see me pass my ignorance on to my children" movie.
I do not find that the children are not advanced for their age, I think it is the baby way they speak which belies their intelligence. I really like Aiden (little professor), he is so cute.
What I did not find cute, was Mady.
I have never said anything against these eight children, but I was surprised that Mady's mannerisms are a clone of Kate's during the couch interviews and what she does and does not want!
I hope that when the cameras go away, she reverts back to the bright little plucky girl she was, without the attitude.
As for the rest of the show, Kate please do your homework and learn the names of the people good enough to give up their time for you. I find your children have more smarts than you.

Lights, Cameras, Platitudes said...

Seems to me, it was this decision to buy the mansion, more than anything else, that killed her own brand.

=============

I agree that this was the beginning of the end. Viewers couldn't identify with this family because they weren't just the parents down the street who were raising eight kids. Viewers saw, with each episode, the greed and the grifting, added to the lavish vacations that most could only dream about.

That said, though, if it hadn't been the purchase of the new property, there would have been something else. She's her own worst enemy and there's no doubt that she eventually would have shot herself in both feet.

Lights, Cameras, Platitudes said...

Oh. And her couch scenes justifying her greed for that house by saying "the kids deserve it. It's their house".

============
In addition to the "mine as far as the eye can see" proclamation, I will never forget when one of the kids asked her how much money it costs to buy the new house, and her response was, "That's why mommies and daddies work." That one blew me away. Mommies and Daddies work? Geez Louise. The KIDS worked for the house, and continue to work for the house.

Red Sky At Night said...

Amy too said, "I do think she fell in love with Steve. When he leaves and he will, she will be toast."

########


I think that she will be toast, and THEN he will leave.
For the record, Jon didn't live or sleep in the barn. There is an apartment over the detached garage. That is where he allegedly lived when they moved to Wernersville.

"It was about wife, hubby and 8 kids and stretching a dollar and a Mom who could organize, cook, feed 8 kids at once, keep them all clean, and push her so called lazy husband off the sofa and work, while living in tight quarters with bunk beds."

#########

I think we saw from the beginning that Jon was the one who was doing the domestic chores, katering to Kate, diapering and bathing the kids while she sat and directed him. I'm not sure her personality was ever forgiven, especially in the episodes where she publicly humiliated him, or in the sofa interviews where she picked on everything he did, from his breathing to his grammar. It became very difficult to dismiss her hitting him as just love taps.

"All Her that did it, but it should have been about All OURS and that show might still be on the air."

########

The show is still on the air. Jon and Kate Plus Eight ended because there was no more Jon to push around.

However, if Kate Plus Eight is nearing the end, I don't think it's because it is ALL HER. Even if it were ALL OURS, there would still be a sense of collective entitlement. They would still be taking the extended vacations and the show would still be about exploited kids who are filmed at every opportunity in order to keep the money rolling in. ALL OURS would simply mean exactly what it implies -- the entitlement is exhibited by all of them, not just Kate.

Annie Barth said...

Agreed, the Mansion buying and Kate going, almost instantly from the below average earning person, fighting over coupons, no room for everyone in that E town house, screaming fits, scaring the heck out of those kids was unbelievable.

But the Mansion move and Steve, older, sophisticated looking, foreign accent moved right in, not just to guard the family. That is what Dad's do, but Jon was never the boss, was he? She make him look like a fool, she could not sit still on her white plastic chair without screaming orders at him. She loved to correct his grammar, that got me, but when I heard Jon was moved to the barn and not in that house with his kids, and that he took that order from the witch, well, that did it for me.

The Mansion, none of us can relate to. Bought at such a high price for what? That money should have been invested properly and they should never have isolated those kids from playing with neighborhood kids. It was about Kate wanting all that land and the big house, not the kids. I will forever believe that the move to the Mansion has a lot to do with the children's problems and there, I'm sure, are some, we will eventually find out about.

Kate did believe her own press and her lines of fans for book signings but when Beth Carson bailed on her, that spoke volumes of Kate's lack of being a Mom.

Collin and his embarrassments at a very young age, filmed in privacy, never really being wanted by Kate. Seems with the other 2 boys, you could see it too. No patience with those boys. Disliked them. Why?

Would take years of analysis for that chick to figure out her life problems.

Figure that is why the Doctor who flew to LA wanted to hear about Kate's childhood and Kate stopped the sessions as Kate thought all the problems were Jon not wanting to continue the show.

Jon was weak with Kate, Jon is not weak, but anyone around Kate gets her treatment and if you cross her, you suffer. He finally broke.

He is better and his kids will have some stability.

When Kate refused to get up off her ass in that furniture store as his belly hurt and he was impacted, it was a joke that week on the sofa with both K & J laughing. That was horrific. Kate did not get up and tend to him. Jon just kept saying "Mommy isn't going to help you" like it was a competition with those 2 and the kids suffered and the twins grew up much too fast.

Shame, but not only does she shoot herself in the foot or both big feet, but she will continue to harm the mental stability of those 8 children with her attitude.

P. Peterson is right, we should be very, very patient with those children later as they grew when that show is off the air. It will be such a shock to the tups especially as they grew up traveling first class, etc. Don't have play friends, surrounded by acres and acres of land and Kate does not trust anyone to enter her domain. Sick and sad.

Button Button said...

I first noticed Kart's morph from the cute little tee-shirt mom when she began wearing and playing with those long, dangley ear-rings.

She began applying more makeup, then the cockadoodle doo hair cut came.

But the first symptoms were those ear-rings. She began to see herself in a new way.

Friend In Pennsylvania said...

Annie said...


The Mansion, none of us can relate to. Bought at such a high price for what?
_______


That's not entirely true. There are quite a few who can relate. It's not a mansion - it's a large house with acreage. To those who live in certain areas (such as in CA), it would probably be called a mansion, but the square footage of the house is not rare in this area. The market value now is just a bit over $600,000, not at all uncommon or unheard of here. I can relate to a house that is larger than that. Nobody ever called our home a mansion or an estate. We would have laughed if we heard that. It was just a "big house."


"Figure that is why the Doctor who flew to LA wanted to hear about Kate's childhood and Kate stopped the sessions as Kate thought all the problems were Jon not wanting to continue the show."

_______

My understanding is that the sessions never started. There was a verbal contract to "fix" Jon. Lafair left her vacation in Mexico and flew to LA and had long phone calls with Kate. Did Jon ever actually have therapy sessions with LaFair?

Annie Barth said...

When I said most people could not relate to the Mansion, what I was saying was that Kate's Fan Base could not relate.

It was a show with too many, kids, not enough room in a ranch home, stretching a dollar, mom and dad clashing over everything and it was what her fan base was. the average American family with all those problems, except maybe 8 kids, when they moved to that big house and it was definitely much more than E Town and then all that land with a pool, barns for horses and gated with all kinds of whistles and bells, now how many in the US, with the economy was the way it was going could sit and watch her turn from young housewife with kids to movie star looks with jewelry, makeup, mini skirts, etc., Not her fan base!

No neighbors, etc. That "moving on up" thing did not work for her, Jon and the kids as far as the fan base.

I do not doubt that the doctor took that phone call from Kate, met with her and Jon, even telephone counseling is considered counseling sessions. Lots of docs do that.

No one is going to agree on how it all went wrong, least of all Kate, she is going down the drain with a fight. But it did go wrong, all wrong. No longer the housewife with the sweats, the bunk beds but Hollywood star, she lost that fan base. Her fault

O-Hi-O said...

re: living arrangements at the mansion (mansion as compared to their previous middle class house):

Anyone remember the 'under penalty of severeness' episode, where she cautioned the children against EVER entering 'mommy and daddy's bedroom'. She said things were now going to change, that the kids would no longer be permitted in the parents' bedroom because the parents needed their privacy.

Kate and TLC were still hoping then to continue the ruse that J&K were happily married and sharing this new house adventure as a family.

I don't believe there were ever any plan for 'mommy and daddy's bedroom' in that new house. I believe the Gosselin marriage had been a sham for a long while, declared dead by Kate LONG before the stories of Jon acting the fool with young chicks in local bars.

I'm guessing one reason for that particular property being chosen was BECAUSE it had a separate living quarter for the pretend-happily-married-Jon, all to keep the brand going.

"Ours is the realest reality show on tv", incessantly bragged Kate back then. Yeah, right.

O-Hi-O said...

re: Mady emulating Kate: I always thought Mady's basic temperment was very much like her mom's. Even from way, way back in the earliest episodes.

I have always felt so sorry for that child because she seems to try so hard to win her mother's approval by acting just like her mother, but on a child's level.

Sadly, rather than love and approval, all Mady ever seemed to get from her mother was disdain ("every DAY with that child!" on one of the Carolina vacas).

I recall an episode where K8G was claiming Cara's calm, loving personality was like her own and Jon rolled his eyes and said it was Mady who was more Kate-like. Kate balked at the thought that it was Mady who mirrors her mother's personality, rather than the twin I am guessing Kate sees herself as most similar (loving, giving, peaceful, mature).

This was disturbing on so many levels. First, it gave a glimpse into just how removed from reality Kate Gosselin has probably always been - completely out of touch with who she really is and how she is perceived. But more than that, I found it nothing short of tragic that Mady's own mom took such umbrage at being compared to her. I find it heartbreaking to see a child try so hard to win her mom's approval, but, instead of love and approval for emulating her mom's behavior, all Mady seems to get from Kate is criticism and an attempt to distance herself from the comparison to this particular daughter.

My heart aches for any child who finds him/herself in this kind of a no-win parent-child relationship. It must be extremely confusing and horrifically heartbreaking.

dmasy said...

Mansion vs. house terminology: I live in the Midwest also. We have a large older home on over 150 acres. The family farm has even more surrounding land. NO way the word mansion would be used. Had Kate been home shopping in this area our home would have been one she would have checked out. We have a pond and not a swimming pool, a small barn (with an apartment for Jon to live in), river frontage and a greenhouse. Not enough bedrooms for her family. But ample square footage. I do all the mowing (17 acres) and use big tractor mowers on the open areas. She has to pay upwards of $400. each mowing to hire those crews with that equipment. My husband and I maintain the gardens and the trees and the pond. Living with these amenities would be outrageously expensive if we didn't do the work ourselves. It is a peaceful lifestyle with honest labor to pleasure balance. Kate would never understand -- a leaky faucet with a difficult to attach hose undid her in one of the last shows I watched. She is an unappreciative brat, in my opinion. I enjoy reading other comments here. I used to check in daily, but now visit about once a week. I hope my dwindling interest is representative of how others feel. Thank you.

8unhappycampers said...

Interesting re-tweets:
Kateplusmy8 Kate Gosselin
RT @notimeforkids @Kateplusmy8 **this is NOT, me,Kate Gosselin& does NOT represent my views or opinions**
14 hours ago
»
Kate Gosselin
Kateplusmy8 Kate Gosselin
RT @notimeforkids @Kateplusmy8 Hello tweeties :) I'm sitting around the pool picking lint out of my navel. @TLC-pls remove. Thanks
14 hours ago

Okay, so someone's taking the piss out of her, but why the hell would she say "TLC please remove?" Why can't she do it herself? Does someone else really control the twitter account? Does she just pop in now and again to monitor whomever is really posting as her? Would explain the variety of tweeting styles.

O-Hi-O said...

"a leaky faucet with a difficult to attach hose undid her in one of the last shows I watched."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

And in one of the early, post-separation, "Can Do Kate" iterations, she bragged about PUTTING IN A SCREEN. The woman is clueless.

As for dwindling viewer interest, I believe it's pretty much unanimous. This no talent, no charisma harpie has turned off too many people to be viable long-term on any public/tv venue.

Good riddance.

RONLEE said...

On the way home from church I drove by the Kate's i.e. mansion..

Question...does she still have the chicken coup? If she does it was moved...before you could see it on the top of the hill to the left of the house.

I did see the poor dog laying in the driveway near the entrance gate. I don't belive the dog is allowed in the house....this dog is not loved by Kate or the kids..it's just there....

Marie France said...

O-Hi-O said...
re: living arrangements at the mansion (mansion as compared to their previous middle class house):
Anyone remember the 'under penalty of severeness' episode, where she cautioned the children against EVER entering 'mommy and daddy's bedroom'. She said things were now going to change, that the kids would no longer be permitted in the parents' bedroom because the parents needed their privacy.
5/22/2011 7:28 AM

Actually, my understanding from reading different blogs and articles, is that there is a "wing" of the house itself (not the apartment over the garage) that is Kate's private suite. People have said it is a private apartment that only Kate can access. So she really isn't a mother a all. She has the nannies do what is needed and lives in her private apartment hanging out with disturbed adolescent girls on Twitter.

lukebandit said...

What tv show either scripted or reality shows every year the kids birthday party? Every year.

RONLEE said that they drove by kate's mansion and didn't see the chicken coop, which you could see before. IMO, as soon as the filming was over, she got it moved as soon as she could.

Poor Baby. Shoka's Understudy, has so much love to give. I am suprised that kate has let him stay this long. I wonder if he was down at the gate waiting for the kids to come back from Jon's, if it was his weekend. Dogs are that smart.

kate not so much.

People Under the Bus said...

Someone posted that kate needed to be thrown under the bus because she has thrown a lot of people under it. I know they can't wait for her too.

I have also seen kate do a @tlc please remove.

Is she really that lazy?

Yes, but asking TLC to remove it, keeps her in the news, even when it is good or when its bad.

Tanks 4 the Mammaries said...

Shoka's Understudy said: "You would figure that someone who was on tv would know what episode was being aired next."

ChurchMouse replied: "But it's not her show. Never has been. It's TLC's show. They call all of the shots, they own all of the rights, and Ms. Gosselin is merely a participant who gets what they feel like tossing her."

Yes. The studio has all the rights, and they don't give a tinker's dam about the human props they are using.

Tamara said: "It's been obvious for quite a while that TLC doesn't care about Khate's image, or making her look good."

Yes, I'm not surprised that TLC would knowingly turn on a mentally ill woman and, instead of shielding her as they had been, hold her up to ridicule, if it would bring in more advertising dollars.

I am reminded of the late, great Judy Garland, and how her studio chewed her up and spit her out. She was hectored to lose weight, and put on drugs to enable this; and she was worked at an inhuman pace. Toward the end of her life, the last videos and photos of her were of a woman looking at least 10 years older than her true age, and perpetually intoxicated or high on drugs (or the effects of the liver damage from same).

Whatever spawned the naivete of any of us, Jon and Kate included, believing that TLC would do any differently? They don't care about the children's welfare any more than MGM cared about young Judy.

Wendy said...

If I were still in college, I would play a drinking game where everyone had to suffer through a Kate Gossselin interview but had to drink everytime she said "um"...she gives um, the worst, um, interview!

O-Hi-O said...

"Dogs are that smart.

Kate not so much"

**********************************

LOL!

Seriously, from what K8G has shown us, compared to my own German Shepherd, I doubt Kate Gosselin is even emotionally/psychologically CAPABLE of the kind of unconditional love and loyalty given by noble beasts such as German Shepherds.

I'll say it again: the woman is clueless. On so many levels. She will never GET IT in life. Never.

O-Hi-O said...

re: a special wing just for K8G: doesn't surprise me at all.

Wouldn't surprise me if she has had a throne built for herself in there. Perhaps, like the Pope in the Vatican, she deigns to appear at her suite's window, so that her children can worship and adore her from below.

Friend In Pennsylvania said...

I do not doubt that the doctor took that phone call from Kate, met with her and Jon, even telephone counseling is considered counseling sessions. Lots of docs do that.

___________



That was my original question. Did Jon (and/or Kate) actually MEET with Dr. Lafair? You say that she did, but has this been confirmed anywhere?

"It was a show with too many, kids, not enough room in a ranch home, stretching a dollar, mom and dad clashing over everything and it was what her fan base was. the average American family with all those problems, except maybe 8 kids, when they moved to that big house and it was definitely much more than E Town and then all that land with a pool, barns for horses and gated with all kinds of whistles and bells, now how many in the US, with the economy was the way it was going could sit and watch her turn from young housewife with kids to movie star looks with jewelry, makeup, mini skirts, etc., Not her fan base!"

_________


I'm really having a difficult time following this sentence, but it sounds like you are saying that her fan base never could have afforded such a home. I respectfully disagree with that because not all of her fans were low middle class blue collar workers. Kate and Jon did have a lovely Cape Cod home, but the parents in an "average" American family don't always "clash over everything." There are families who are not dysfunctional. It sounds like you are saying that her fan base was made up of those in a low socio-economic group, and I really don't think that in the beginning that this was true.

Rhiannon said...

it was what her fan base was. the average American family with all those problems,
======================

I think the OP was saying that the original fan base was predominantly made up of women and moms who would consider themselves part of an 'average American family.' A mom with many demands on her time, sometimes aggravated with her clueless husband, more focused on taking care of the house and the kids than on looking picture perfect, having some economic stress in stretching the budget, etc.

I don't the the average American family could afford the home that Kate and the children now live in. Certainly not now, but even before the economic collapse, most families were already stretched thin.

The life Kate leads now is far from what most normal families and moms experience. Who among us has time and money for weekly tanning sessions, mani-peds, trips to Kentucky, Australia, and New Zealand? All without working!

Which of us has their own personal purse handler, who steps between us and anyone that might cause us aggravation?

I'm sure some here have children in private school - but quite frankly, private school is beyond my budget and that of the people I know. We send our children to public school, and if we're able to save the money, go on one nice vacation per year.

I cannot connect with Kate on any issue: The way she treats her children is counter to what I believe; the way she exploits them and takes away their privacy; the way she makes them work; the way she treats others; the way she has her own bodyguard out of vanity; her materialistic ways. Nothing is admirable about her. I am constantly puzzled that she has any fans at all - I can only imagine that her fans must be of low intelligence and extremely shallow.

Rhiannon said...

Did Jon ever actually have therapy sessions with LaFair?
------------------------------

I may be wrong, but I believe either Jon or the therapist indicated that Jon did have sessions with the doctor, and that he paid for those sessions. The bill that Kate was taken to court over, was the charges for the therapist returning from vacation and flying to L.A. at Kate's request, etc.

O-Hi-O said...

Katie Irene has received lots of special attention and treatment since her well publicized tup pregnancy - the better part of a decade.

Via her multiples pregnancy and successful delivery Kate FINALLY seemed to be getting the treatment she seemed to think had been deservedly hers all along. Finally! People were beginning to see and treat her as the oh-so-special person she has always considered herself to be.

I'm guessing Kate's acceptance of her lost fame and fortune will be every bit as graceful and gracious as her DWTS performance.

Bitter and complaining, cradle to crypt, that's our little Katie Irene.

acertaingirl said...

I believed from the start (and still do), that the McMansion was purchased to be a tv studio, filming those kids whenever TLC wanted. After the crap hit the fan, those plans were scrapped.

That's when they started going on all those trips, anything to keep from filming in PA.

barth said...

The average family in the US today, according to so many statistics is general 2 parents who work, 2.5 children and if possible more than 1 bathroom with 3 bedrooms. Now if you are lucky to have an extension built on, etc. Just Great.

What I am saying is that Kate Gosselins' fan base was women with similar economic problems: kids, food, house repairs, auto insurance and how in the world do you stretch a dollar.

Only this family has had 6 children at once, so 8 kids which drew viewers. How in the world does this young, average couple "skate through each month" with all of their expenses and Jon didn't have a job, Kate had to stop working.

Every city in this country has ungone deep economic loss of jobs, housing, etc., so the Gosselins together had a fan base and cute babies.

Never said it was low class blue collar.

When Kate started changing, going Hollywood, traveled all weekend and was having nannies she paid, babysitters, how many woman in her fan base related to her?

When they moved to that very large house with all of that land, a very different house from Elizabethtown, with all of the housekeeper,nannies and Kate was traveling with Steve?

The point is very simple she had women who looked up to her, getting recipes, how to get your kids to go to sleep at night, how to get along with your husband, when you argue, how do you make up and still have the same "money" problems? How do you get thru life?

All of a sudden the Gosselins are millionaires with all kinds of toys to play with: cars, Atv' and all new furniture in that bigger house.

Her TLC fan base is the BM people. Now where are the recipes, how do you stretch a ham into three meals?

Now, she is divorced, thin, blond, hair extensions, tanned, traveling around the world. What is her fan base thinking?

I'll tell you what they are thinking, she is not what she use to be or appeared to be and is boring or otherwise they would all be watching her show and not watching the fantasy shows.

WonderButton said...

It is my opinion that the judge ruled correctly on the therapy bill. It doesn't matter whether or not the therapist met face to face with Kate or John. There are many professionals who offer their services over the phone, and never meet their clients in person. If Kate contracted this woman's services, and if Kate changed her mind while this woman was in transit to CA from her vacation in Mexico, then the therapist should recoup her travel expenses. She is also entitled to whatever time she spent on the phone counseling Kate or Jon.

When I have a chance, I will look at the therapist's website and she if she posts her fee schedule or services.

Amy too said...

Also, the Judge determined that the doctor did meet with Jon and Kate; therefore there was a bill for a bit over $20,000.00.

Evidence showed Jon's payment to the doctor.

Kate was ordered to pay her share.

Done. Pay your bills, you cannot continue to grift. Why would you fight this instead of talking to this woman from the beginning when the bills kept arriving and worked it out? Two years this woman was billing you before she went to file the claim in court for an unpaid bill.

Two years, as she did not want to do anything to put pressure on a family in turmoil with a divorce, etc.

Give it a rest, please, the Judge knows he ruled correctly or else he would have asked for more evidence, more information.

I hope she gets an appeal and the doc subpoenas: Jon, Dr. Phil and all persons who had first person information regarding this doctor and why she was called and who she meet with.

As this doctor had all of that information, dates, times, who she met with, why she was called.

Kate had an atty, what happened? She thought she was going to talk her way out of this? No, we all have to pay our bills.

Barth said...

Kate Gosselin is exhausting, isn't she? Wow, how did Jon live with her, how do those kids live with her, how does Steve stay around her? No wonder everyone has left her life.

kate can't do sh** said...

The honest answer regarding why she has any fans at all is that these fans wish they were her. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. They wish they had her fantasy life. Hell. I despise the woman and I wouldn't mind having nannies, money, a huge house and all that cash for doing NOTHING. I would like my make-up and hair done, my nails done and someone telling me what to eat every day so that I could stay slim.

Scruffy's Mom said...

Her ruin got its start the day she got her tummy tuck.

Ky Moma said...

Did any of you see Kate in that Ky Derby Parade? She was sitting in a convertible, sunglasses on, mini skirted pink dress, hair flying in the wind and waving/smiling to people as 2 police officers brought up the rear of the car. Waving and waving like she was really important.

If this was you or me, honest now, think about this, would you be comfortable sitting there on the back seat of the convertible waving and waving like you were a STAR?

Who is she is what I would have been thinking as I sat on the curb watching the 100 or more floats.

Yet she was so very comfortable and believed she belonged there.

Who is she? I still ask that when I see the video on you tube, who is she? What did she do? Why is she famous?

I agree with most of the posters, no one can possibly relate to her as she acts now. Not us who use to watch that show and those kids when they were born.

I'm not against anyone making themselves over but if you are taking care of 8 kids, have a house to take care of, mow the grass, cook, clean, well you would be someone I could speak to, know.

She is so far "over the moon" in her self importance that she is going to hit the ground with such a thud it will be earth shaking.

The dr said that Jon paid his share of the bill in court, she even said that to some tv reporters and it is in her local newspaper, half of the bill got paid.

Kate scares me. Wonder if Steve keeps her from hurting the kids?

O-Hi-O said...

"Her ruin got its start the day she got her tummy tuck."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Ya' know.... you have a really good point. At that time, I saw that surgery as just a mom feeling embarrassed about what pregnancy had done to her appearance, but, when seen in the larger context now, that was just the beginning of TLC creating Jon & Kate into a more marketable brand. When Jon agreed to undergo a hair transplant (unsuccessful), THAT, too, was writing on the wall for what TLC had in mind and just how far the Gosselin parents were willing to go to keep their fortune & fame going.

Sad for the kids on all counts. What a completely screwed up childhood their parents have handed them. Those teen years are going to be Hell To Pay. Times Eight. That $10K K8G owes the marital counsellor is just the beginning.......

Tamara said...

Personally, I disliked her long before she started to get interested in fashion, before the lavish trips started, before the mcmansion. There were more than enough cringe worthy bits, and obvious lies, in the first two seasons of the show.

O-Hi-O said...

"If it 'ain't' broke, don't fix it": if TLC and the Gosselins had heeded this, K8G's ride on the fame float might've lasted longer. Instead, they unwisely chose the route of "if a little is good, ALOT is much better".

The brand as established early on, with a couple with AVERAGE, every day challenges with child rearing, keeping the home fires burning, and plain, ordinary job to pay the bills: that was relatable. (Though once K8G opened her mouth, vomiting her constant criticism, complaints, even this branding was made difficult to watch, as most of us find K8G's behavior not only unrelatable but absolutely abhorrent and unacceptable.)

Once the personal complete make overs and acred, gated, large home path was picked, it represented a complete departure from the picture TLC had painted the first few glimpses into the Gosselins' household.

You really have to wonder who the BIGGEST Bozo was on that bus... TLC or Kate? Or maybe it's a tie - a veritable Battle of the Bozo's.

At any rate, TLC established a brand, then chose to completely up-end it, presumably to make it shinier, glitzier, and more dramatic, but in the end, all those 'fixes' were just bullets to the foot.

The only really surprising thing in the end is that a woman with absolutely zero talent and likability to match managed to spend TLC's bucks to hog the spotlight as long as she did.

SmileyGrl752 said...

Kate scares me. Wonder if Steve keeps her from hurting the kids?

______________________

I obviously don't know for sure, but I doubt it. Wasn't there a rumor that she shook Mady in Alaska, shook her so hard she made her cry? Why didn't Steve do anything then? Off topic, but I still don't believe Steve and Kate are a couple (but I could be wrong). I just don't understand how Steve could WANT to be with her. He's with her 24/7, sees her nastiness to everyone, how can he not be embarrassed/angered by her? I think he's just her personal baby-sitter for the money.

Kate Gosselin is exhausting, isn't she? Wow, how did Jon live with her, how do those kids live with her, how does Steve stay around her? No wonder everyone has left her life.
_______________

They didn't leave; she kicked them to the curb because "they didn't know how to help her". That or they weren't doing it the right way, most likely.

hart&sole said...

Where did Kate go wrong? Do I think her basic personality has changed? Hardly, Kate just became more of what she already is IMHO.

Coming from me, a long time fan, saying I can no longer watch the show is almost painful, but I can't. The final straw was Kate, running ice cream cones to the kids, dressed like a hooker, in 4 inch heels.

I'll confess to watching part of the Australia episode because I wanted to see Terry Irwin and the kids. It was interesting to see Kate fawn over Terry. Otherwise, if she doesn't like snakes, bugs, spiders, alligators, etc. the intelligent thing would be to stay away from them, but then she couldn't scream like a middle-schooler in her inimitatable fashion.

Moon Over Miami said...

"The only really surprising thing in the end is that a woman with absolutely zero talent and likability to match managed to spend TLC's bucks to hog the spotlight as long as she did."



%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Absolutely. Makes one wonder about our society. In the years to come, the Gosselin/TLC saga will be included in the chapters of many psychology/sociology textbook, as well as journals of behavioral science.

kate can't do sh** said...

Looks like Kate is still trying to get on Celebrity Apprentice. On twitter, in response to someone saying they heard she was going to be on it, she said where did you hear that? I would love to do it.
On Jay Leno, when she did that 10 at 10 spot, she said she wanted to be on DWTS and voila. There she be. Although it had been in the works for some time, she made it seem that she asked for it and it magically happened.

txmom said...

O-Hi-O said...

"Her ruin got its start the day she got her tummy tuck.
_____________

I didn't start paying attention to this show until the divorce announcement, then started catching episodes here and there in a 'backward' sequence..

I will give her credit that she did need a little cosmetic work to get rid of those tummy 'jowls'...but her GREED showed through when talking to the dr, she asked for a boob job. That was her ruin, and was further shown when she bought her 'mine all mine' mcmansion.

Minka's tail said...

Otherwise, if she doesn't like snakes, bugs, spiders, alligators, etc. the intelligent thing would be to stay away from them, but then she couldn't scream like a middle-schooler in her inimitatable fashion.
----------------------------
Amen to that! But I believe TLC tells her what to do and she does it. What I can't figure out is are they: A--making fun of her, pushing her into situations where she'll melt down so that people can laugh at her (and is she aware that's what they're doing) or B--do they think she has fans who truly admire her "can do" spirit, and they are doing a "starting over" show like Fergie and Shania Twain has on Oprah's Network?

As for the changes in her appearance, a lot of her defenders love her for that. "Oh, Kate used to have SHORT HAIR! and BROWN HAIR! And she wasn't fit enough to wear all the short, tight styles. But now she's hot. Why can't a mom look good?"

Physical transformations are over sold as life changes by various shows and magazines. Going to the gym and getting hair extensions makes her a hero to some (but obviously not me!)

Mary said...

Hi

What I do not understand and why people are not reporting her dor abuse to the children. We have seen of this on video and Photo's. How horrible it must be for those children. We know the older film crew and others left the Gosslins for other shows. How do these people sleep at night. the people who interview her with the kids see stuff yet do not say a word. Whay I find interesting everyone thinks poor Mady is a horrible child. Both Kate and Jon did this to the child. I find that Jon's actions not any better when they were filming. These poor children are going to have major problems when they grow up. who do they sue

Rhiannon said...

Tamara said:
Personally, I disliked her long before she started to get interested in fashion, before the lavish trips started,

-----------------------------

I can't recall exactly which moment made me really sit up and say "what the hell?" I do remember in one early episode where either Jon or Kate indicated that Kate slept in until 8:30 a.m. This was when the sextuplets were still babies and I thought that didn't make sense to me. I'm a mom and I knew that when my children were babies, they (and I) were up and at 'em by 6:00 a.m. It was a rare treat to get to sleep until 6:30. 8:30 a.m. meant those children were left sitting and probably fussing for at least 2 hours. That was probably the first real red flag to me that Kate did not behave as a normal mom.

The yelling at Jon in the store was possibly the next thing that turned me off on Kate. I can't abide rude behavior, and she was incredibly rude not only to her husband, but to the patrons and clerks in that store. She showed a lack of class and awareness that I found distasteful. Then she seemed not to understand what she had done wrong!

I won't go into her horrible behavior toward the little boys, over and over again. By then, I was wise to her and knew her to be a truly horrible mother and human being.

E said...

I'm with you SmileyGrl - I don't think Steve and Kate are romantically linked either. I don't see any affection in his demeanor. His eyes are serious and he seems to me like he's just doing a job. Do I think Kate would love there to be something romantic between them? I sure do. I just don't think there is anything.

Moon Over Miami said...

"It was a rare treat to get to sleep until 6:30. 8:30 a.m. meant those children were left sitting and probably fussing for at least 2 hours"


@@@@@

Not to mention the dirty, soggy diapers that those babies were wearing until they were changed.

WonderButton said...

I have absolutely no more doubt that Kate's attempts at "sexy" wardrobe and "look at me" behaviors are damaging to the kids.

Flipping through channels the other day, I came across an episode of MTV's "True Life". The show was about a teen girl who was mortified by her mom's sexy style of dressing - low cut cleavage and belly-baring tops and short-shorts. Her mom was surgically enhanced, too, and displayed sexy photos of herself all over the house. I think the mom was a former bunny.

Anyway - the poor girl had to endure the torture of her mother dressing in barely-there clothes and dancing around shamelessly at a birthday party for her dad. The mom was even "grinding" on a few of the girl's male friends. The boys called her a "true MILF". The girl was clearly disturbed, crying, had to leave the party.........her mom didn't really care.

I wonder if Kate ever saw that show. It could be an eye-opener to her about how embarrassed and distraught her kids might be because of her age-inappropriate, immodest style and behavior.

Janelle K. said...

E said...

I'm with you SmileyGrl - I don't think Steve and Kate are romantically linked either. I don't see any affection in his demeanor. His eyes are serious and he seems to me like he's just doing a job. Do I think Kate would love there to be something romantic between them? I sure do.


That's a very perceptive assessment. If, as has been suggested, Kate is narcissistic, then it would be reasonable to think she believes Steve is attracted to her, perhaps even desires her. If she has a fantasy, it is likely that Steve, a paid servant and thus beneath her stature in life, feels inadequate and intimidated by her, and that is the reason he doesn't make a move on her. She would not even entertain the notion that he could reject her because of any failing on her part, or because he finds his wife more attractive physically or emotionally.

Steve has been around Kate long enough to know her as well as anyone could. She acts uncomfortable in her own [surgically-altered] skin, not confident and sexy. She has no natural charisma. When she tries to come across as loving and compassionate it is painfully obvious she's faking it. And when things aren't going exactly as she demands, she has the charm of a rabid wolverine. She is not destined for sustained stardom, and her modest wealth is bound to be fleeting. A immature, submissive man can be drawn into codependency with such a woman (indeed, she got one to marry her) but there is nothing to suggest that Steve is that sort of guy.

txmom said...

I wonder what she's going to do when the TLC contract expires?
Does she really think she is going to be on the payroll until retirement?

It would be hilarious to see her on CApprentice. She has no work ethic, no talent, no skills, no education, no friends, no contacts. She has no verbal skills, computer skills. She has no musical ability, no acting ability, no singing ability. She can't cook, author books, speak in coherent sentences.

The only talent I have seen her use, and use well, is her grifting ability. She apparently was born with it. She and her brother both stated he would take her punishments for her as a child...that's grifting to me.

She's been a grifter from day one. There is no way she orchestrated having multiples to land a tv show, she isn't that smart. I do think once she got her dream multiples, she thought of a way to grift that, too, and that was by sending out the video tapes. I am sure she thought they could maybe get one show out of it, get a little something to pay a few mortgage payments, but there is no way she is smart enough to have planned such an elaborate scheme. Anybody who argues about whether the state should pay for another year of nurse care on the taxpayer's dime is a GRIFTER. Didn't she say something along the line that people owed it to her to help, that she shouldn't be expected to take care of her children all by herself?

Anyone who has a savings account (its been stated that they had some sort of inheritance from Jon's father), and thinks they don't have to use it for their responsibilities, is a deadbeat grifter.

I would love to see her to CA. It would be HILARIOUS. It would be a win-win for everyone....it would be great entertainment, the kids would be with their dad (and not filming), she would get her camera time....

The only way I don't see her doing it, is if it's not enough money for her standards.
Wouldn't you love to see her get a talking to like NeNe gave Star Jones? LOLOLOLOLOL

unrequited said...

I don't think Steve is romantically interested in Kate. The woman is physically grotesque and her behavior is infantile, evil, and insufferable. He seems to find her annoying like the rest of the world. However, she is totally dependent on him and probably in love with him Remember right after the separation, when Kate walked out to the front fence in tears and was walked back to the house by a big black bodyguard? That is the only time I've seen her look truly sad...when she was alone without Steve. She didn't care about losing Jon or upsetting her children. But she was completely lost without that little white haired man

Amy too said...

Couldn't sleep last night and I looked at some youtubes of Kate and family.

There are several which are disturbing:
Kate smacking Collins' face when he was standing by the refrigerator.

Collins' broken hand, never explained to my knowledge.

The tups 5th birthday party and Collin sitting on the table, just rocking and staring, no expression on his face.

Collin trying to sneak 2 hamburgers at Beth's house. Scared and hungry.

Then you tube a trip that the K8 took in the bus and there is Steve in the bus playing the games with Kate, Jaime and the kids on their way to Fla for the porpoise expo.

Steve was laughing, joking and participating in the "family atmosphere" not sitting in the back just watching, sitting with one of the tups I think.

Yep, she and Steve have been doing the dirty for a few years and that is why Jon is gone.

Her tummy tuck was the kick off for attracting men and she really was attracted to the gray haired foreigner with the New Zealand accent, the hair changed, the clothing, and on the road they went, Jon went to the garage.

Yes, I think she abused her children. No, I don't have any evidence but she has a very bad temper and she grabbed those babies at times and I thought she would pull their little arms out of their shoulder sockets.

I think Kate Gosselin is crazy.

I also think her children are afraid of her.

Watch her brother and Jodi on you tube and you see some interesting comments about those children.

There is also a you tube of Mady kicking Collin several times and going back and kicking him again at Jodi's house. It was the normal to beat up each other, that is what the kids did, just like their mother did to them. That was not something that only happened once.

Yep, it is a pretty dysfunctional family, more so than I know or have known lately.

Rebecca said...

With regard to the Twitter remarks/retweets from earlier in the thread, I read the "@TLC-pls remove" bit as part of one of the fake-Kate's fake tweets, as in "TLC, as my servants, please come remove my navel lint so I don't have to do it."

Amy too said...

What makes us all think Steve is just a hired hand or security person or just someone who will be gone when the contract expires?

Why do we let him off so easy?

He moved into that house, why didn't he say"I'll stay in the garage and you two work out your problems"

Why did he, from the beginning, always travel with her and not a Female Security Officer? There many very strong woman in Security. That way while Kate tinkled (she does tinkle right) no one could bother her?

Nope, I'm not convinced that there relationship is much more advanced than we will now until the contract expires. He is substitute Daddy, at least he got her to stop hitting the kids.

hopelessly naive said...

Some on here have been discussing when they first realised that something wasn't right with this family or when things changed. For me it was when they bought the McMansion and Kate was furiously cleaning the fridge. I actually hadn't watched in a very long time. J&K+8 was something I only watched when absolutely nothing else was on. One night while channel surfing I found the above show and couldn't figure out where they were. It sent me to search the internet where I not only found pics of the new house, the price of the new house but also GWOP (love this site btw). It's interesting to see some of the comments on here because some of you were astute enough to notice very early on that something was not right while others, like myself, took things at face value and believed that what we saw on tv was real. I personally missed important facts like K slept in until 8:30 everyday or that the kids had to take such a long nap every afternoon. Maybe if I had been an avid viewer I may have caught some of this. I watched "Cupcake Gate" for the first time on Youtube just a few weeks ago and it broke my heart.

Just Down The Road said...

He moved into that house, why didn't he say"I'll stay in the garage and you two work out your problems"

====
Because by the time they moved into that house, the marriage already was over.

"That way while Kate tinkled (she does tinkle right) no one could bother her?"

=====
Nobody bothered her. He guarded the door.


"What makes us all think Steve is just a hired hand or security person or just someone who will be gone when the contract expires?"

====
Because nobody in his right mind would want her. She's his meal ticket. Nothing more, nothing less.

Annie said...

I stopped watching after gum gate. Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin were great with the kids. They watched them so many times with out compensation. They helped the family with so many activities. Its so sad that Kate was just looking for a way to kick them out of the picture. They care for the kids and loved them. Kate cares more about money then love and family.

Amy too said...

Again, up last night, not sleeping and I flip thru youtube,com and the Gosselins. Recuperating from pneumonia, the steroid inhalers are brutal. I can't sleep for very long. But I am getting better & back to the gosselins. A tape of Mady & Cara going to a cooking class and when Kate describes it, she said the girls would love to cook, like I did, and I didn't want to crush their dreams" like my dreams were crushed," so I signed them up for this class. WOW that spoke volumes of her relationship with her parents.

No wonder she is so about looking perfect, having money, land, material possessions. She cannot feel love, not even from her children. She never felt loved from her own parents.

Guess Jon got the brutal lashings because of her relationship with her dad and mom? JMO

She can't feel good about herself. She does, indeed, need counseling, serious counseling as those children are feeling the brut of the anger she has inside.

"No one knows how to help her" and I believe that because she has not spoken about her childhood nor has her family.

Her brother needs to speak up if he even knows what went on. I mean each child has a different relationship with their parents.

JMO, now I know why she cannot be happy. Everything she does is to show her parents "see, look what I did, look at who I know, look how good I look, look what I own"

Guess we are seeing that too with her sister and the adoption thing.

Dysfunctional with a capital D.

silimom said...

Amy too - Appeals don't work like that. Kate's attorney has to show the appeals court that the judge in the original case made some sort of mistake. No new evidence can be entered during an appeals hearing. So they won't be subpoenaing anyone.

The case was pretty clear cut. Kate did not deny at any time that she had contacted LaFair or talked to her on the phone or that she had requested that LaFair come out to California. Kate's defense was that she didn't have a contract with LaFair. LaFair argued that they had a verbal contract. Kate's actions supported LaFair's argument. Verbal contracts are binding by law.

The judge made the appropriate and logical judgement in this case. Kate will lose on appeal.

At that point, she will have xx number of days to reimburse LaFair or come to some sort of payment arrangement with her. If she doesn't, LaFair can have her wages attached or send her to a collection agency.

Tamara said...

The first 2 seasons, and even the two specials, are much more ominous and creepy when viewed with the knowledge we now have of their future. And the knowledge we have of their past, the purposely getting pregnant with sextuplets and that they were actually trying to esentially sell their yet unborn children.

Esmeralda said...

Regarding Kate "not feeling love from her parents" I think it's her personality defects that cause that rather than her parents being the cause of her issues. Her siblings don't have the major issues with life and the world that Kate has. I don't know what creates an overly narcissistic personality, but Kate has one and there is the source of most of the rest of her issues.

Rita said...

I don't know what creates an overly narcissistic personality,
---------------------------

Me either, but from my own perspective, I think it must just happen. Maybe some genetic component is missing, or a neuron in the brain fires differently than for average people, something like that. I liken it to a brain disorder, because there is a definite disconnect between the way most of us view the world and those around us, versus how a narcissist views the world and his/her role in it.

I think only with intense therapy could a narcissist begin to change her behavior and attitudes, but since a narcissistic trait is that you cannot see your own faults, why would they even consider therapy or changing themselves?

Dee Dee said...

At that point, she will have xx number of days to reimburse LaFair or come to some sort of payment arrangement with her. If she doesn't, LaFair can have her wages attached or send her to a collection agency.
-------------------------

Depending on PA law, LeFair may be able to put a lien on Kate's home as well, for the outstanding debt. But her best bet would probably be to turn over the judgment to an agency that does debt collection and give them a percentage of whatever is collected.

Friendly Skies said...

Collins' broken hand, never explained to my knowledge.

$$$$$


Was it confirmed that Collin's hand was broken? When was this?

Friend In Pennsylvania said...

If she doesn't, LaFair can have her wages attached or send her to a collection agency.
++++++++++++++++

Not in PA. There is no wage garnishment.

Lafair can try to execute the judgment by sending it to an outside agency or having the sheriff put a lien on her property. If the latter is done, Lafair wouldn't get her money until the property is sold. For such a small amount, however, the sheriff could cease something worth that amount, i.e., her car, personal property, etc. It's a time-consuming process, and not a cheap one. There are more costs involved - court orders, fees, etc.

Amy too said...

Esmeraldo....what a pretty name.

I truly don't know if Kate is so confident or she really is about pretending.

If it was true confidence then why didn't she ever participate in the Hollywood or NY parties? She really didn't.

She made sure she got her picture in the magazines, but she didn't let anyone get to know her, even the DWTS people, who usually after 4 to 6 weeks are good friends.

No, I don't think she really has the confidence and I think she hurts and she will continue to hurt others, especially when she loses her contract.

Pamelajo said...

One thing that I have never understood, is that when Jon and Kate started making the big bucks, why did the state of Pennsylvania not want to be reimbursed?

RONLEE said...

WAGE GARNSHIMENT (?)

OH YES THEIR IS IN PA...I WAS A SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF A LOCAL COMPANY, AND THE MEN OR WOMEN DONT PAY CHILD SUPPORT, OUR COMPANY COULD AND DID GARNISH THE WAGES...

disgusted in pa said...

yes PA does garnish wages.

City of "brotherly love" my ass said...

Pamelajo said...
One thing that I have never understood, is that when Jon and Kate started making the big bucks, why did the state of Pennsylvania not want to be reimbursed?

***********************

The state of PA was not paying the Gosselins nor loaning them money, and therefore would not require any form of "reimbursement." That said, the State of PA benefitted from the show in a huge (FREE) way: plugs for Hershey, Amish country, Crayola Factory, historic Philly, etc. etc. were FREE advertisements for the state's main tourist attractions. No doubt one reason why the PA law-makers turned a blind eye to the child labor abuses until Murt came along...

Friend In Pennsylvania said...

The state of PA was not paying the Gosselins nor loaning them money, and therefore would not require any form of "reimbursement."

%%%%%%%%%%%%

I think the poster was referring to the state providing them with Medicaid-funding nursing care for the year when the tups were born. I'm not sure exactly how that works with Medicaid, but in some instances, it is required to be paid back when the recipient is able to do so.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1400462/posts

Brummygirl said...

The kid in the middle, usually gets no special treatment, for they are not the oldest , nor are they the youngest.
**************************
But at some point they WERE the youngest!

Abstractor said...

In State of PA, only 2 types of garnishments, both Federal: one is for child support and the other is for taxes.

It use to be for unpaid bills but laws changed over 20 years ago. A dept store could garnish your wages.

This costs the employer money as well. So laws were changed.

Kate was ordered to pay, their probably will be no appeal and Kate and the Doc will reach an agreement.

Kate can pay $1.00 a wk and the doc can do nothing, absolutely nothing about that. If it wasn't in writing before treatment started, then the doc gets what she gets and Kate can take 20 yrs to pay her. At least she is paying, is how the court looks at it.

Knowing Kate, she will pull that. The doc will just accept it. I don't know about a lien against the property as once you file a lien, in the state of PA, it is good for 5 years and it has a cost attached, and every 5 years you have to re file and there is that charge.

I believe the doc will eventually call it a loss, except the court costs were paid to the court, Kate does not get away from that, she paid that while in court that day. It is a given. Or else the sheriff would be at her door and Kate would be ordered back to face that Judge.

As for the Medicaid assistance, if they did not have a house in their names, no property, then they do not have to repay, but if the house were in their name, when they sold it, the State automatically takes it's money as it does have a lien against property for Medicaid assistance.

Went thru that with my parents, my Dad went blind, waiting for Soc Security benefits, he accept food stamps and damn if he didn't have a lien against his house. It was sad, as they were aware of it and when both died, the amount of interest on the lien was so high, the state took the house. Would have broke their hearts.

But it is the way the system works.
So, I think when they sold that house Jon's Dad helped buy them and went to E town, they paid the Medicaid assist back, it is a given during the selling of the house by the abstract people who do the hunting thru the history of the house for a clear title to hand over to new buyers.

Wow, she really must enjoy all of this, huh? Amazing, I would be embarrassed by all of it.

Friend In Pennsylvania said...

In State of PA, only 2 types of garnishments, both Federal: one is for child support and the other is for taxes.

_________

I posted this before, but I guess it got lost in the shuffle, but there are more than two types of garnishment, none of which applies to Kate, which is why in my previous post I responded by saying that PA does not have wage garnishment [to recover judgments].

Wages may be garnished for the following:

Judgments for child or spousal support; obligations relating to final divorce distribution; PHEAA student loans; back rent on a residential lease; as restitution for criminal matters; for certain types of taxes.

Shoka's Understudy said...

I wonder if Jon's dad paid the state back for the nursing assistance. I wouldn't put anything past kate. She wouldn't care if you didn't have anything to eat after you had helped her.

She is all about self and how she can make the most money in the shortest amount of time.

Last night on DWTS, they barely had time to let Hines and his pro partner say a few words. It made me sick, thinking about how kate cried and wiped her tears and whined for 10 minutes on a national tv network.

It was all about her. It always is.

Annie Barth said...

With a good appeal's atty, they may find a way to get another hearing. I would never put that past a good Appeal's atty. But this Appeals atty would want to have their money up front, a very big retainer;more than the bill.

Main problem may have been it just destroyed Kate that she was paying a bill involving Jon, vindictive as she is.

Collin in a hand cast is on Youtube.com, so is another one of the tups perhaps Joel? It is there though.

Something that always bothered me was the quick running to the Time Out Corner by the tups. I do believe they had been beat up first by Kate, as they ran so fast and put their heads down. Scared to death of her.

No, I don't know that, it is my opinion, which means very little, but never have I seen kids run to a time out corner and they all did as fast as possible. Very sad and they always had the reddest eyes when they looked up to see if she was standing over them.

What a screwed up mess all of this is. I see no way of Kate going back to living in a smaller house or even enjoying those children when everything involving TV and publicity is no longer around, no way. She will either finally have a nervous breakdown or she will do something/anything to get attention.

Paul Peterson may be wrong, the kids may find their way, but Kate may end up being the one on the Dr. Drew show repeatedly, as she is not going to accept going back to the real world. No way. JMO

I do pray for those kids as I pray for all children who suffer at the hands of their parents.

Have heard some terrible stories from girlfriends over the years of how terrible either their father or mother was to them. Some people should never have children, then raise them with such resentfulness. Kate can't raise a dog, and why does she have all of those kids?

Legally Blonde said...

Annie said,

With a good appeal's atty, they may find a way to get another hearing. I would never put that past a good Appeal's atty. But this Appeals atty would want to have their money up front, a very big retainer;more than the bill.

===============

It now goes to appeals, but no new evidence may be introduced nor at this time may there be a new hearing no matter how good the attorney may be.

The appellate court examines the record of evidence presented in the trial court and the law that the lower court applied and decides whether that decision was legally sound or not. The purpose of the appeal is for another court to reveal the evidence that already has been submitted to determine if the proper ruling was made.

This decision was made by a judge and not by a jury. It can be reversed if the appellate court finds that the ruling was unconstitutional or that the judge applied the wrong legal standard.

There would be no new hearing UNLESS the appellate court found that to be true, and even then it gets very complicated. For the amount owned to the plaintiff, it's just not worth it to string out this whole process.

Brummygirl said...

All this talk of abuse by Kate to the children, is unfounded except what was viewed on t.v. episodes.
The only other person who knows the real truth of those early years, is Jon.
After T.L.C. is finished with Kate and gag orders, contracts etc are no longer viable, will he come out of the closet and speak, or will there be nothing to tell?

The truth will come out said...

For the longest time I could not understand why Kate was made of Teflon. Meaning the bad things she does has no consequences to her. Then I thought of her in relation to Arnold Swarzenager (not a clue how to spell it) and the one thing they both have in common is power. Real and perceived. Arnold's power to keep the truth coming out was through intimidation and money. Kate's power came/comes from TLC. No TLC. No power.

Not all of Kate's "employees" signed confidentiality agreements and somewhere, somehow, sometime the truth will spill forth a la the Arnold fiasco. And unlike Arnold, Kate won't have the connections to stop some of the stories.

I'm a patient person. The truth will come on, its just takes time.

Big Wooden Spoon said...

Annie Barth said:Something that always bothered me was the quick running to the Time Out Corner by the tups. I do believe they had been beat up first by Kate, as they ran so fast and put their heads down. Scared to death of her.

No, I don't know that, it is my opinion.

---

I agree with your opinion, for the reason you said, AND because of the way she smacked Emeril when he was in her kitchen. Emeril was paying attention to Jon rather than Katie Irene, so she whacked him on the arm with a plastic spatula. She did it so casually -- it was an automatic response to displeasure -- and she hit hard enough that Emeril was rubbing his arm afterward. It hurt!

If she reacted that way to a guest (and a real STAH at that), does anyone really think she wouldn't hit a child who annoyed her?

JMO

Betsy said...

Kate's ready whacking of Emeril, Jon, and Alexis over a whistle outside lead me to believe that Kate had/has the potential to quickly whack the children out of anger and frustration. There are photos of the Alexis incident and a video somewhere of her pinching Mady. Kate seems to lack self-control when she thinks she can get away with it. Whether that rises to legal child abuse or not it's cause for concern and very likely contributes to the issues of the children who act out at school. They are only copying behavior that they have seen IMO.

Amy too said...

Yes, I do remember Kate whacking Emerill twice with that spatula, while also holding that white paper cup of coffee, from a very expensive store. He was startled, shocked and very upset as he rubbed his arm and looked at her with such distain, he also made a comment to Jon, something along the lines of I guess you get that too, well then I feel sorry for you.

She was at the height of her popularity and she was upper manic during those times. I do remember that.

The kids, yes, the kids, I do wonder just how much abuse they did take, as they did get out of control and I remember Jodi telling Kate that she should cut back on filming and spend more time with each one of them, as they all needed personal attention, but Kate never answered her.

I would love to know what happened in Utah, which blew away Beth and Jodi and Kevin.

My guess and only my opinion? She called them to help the babysitters pack up the kids because she was on a bender with Steve in some hotel somewhere.
I do believe this and when Beth couldn't find her, well that was the end of the Beth Carson family having anything to do with Kate.

I doubt, JMO, that to this day if Beth Carson even talks to Jon, as she probably knew that Jon was well aware of everything going on, the marriage had been over for a long time at that point.

When Steve came into the picture, someone posted that the marriage had been over 6 months or so before that.

When the TLC contracts expire, I do believe we will hear from Kevin, Jodi and Jon in a court room to help Jon get co custody, but I doubt that they will have to fight very hard as she will be so over those kids.

Her hold on those kids was to make money and then to keep them from Jon. I do believe that, she is that vindictive.

Someone has another post on some sight about how Kate acted in KY and all she did was grift at every opportunity, each place she attended a function. We did see photos but no interviews on TV from KY of her. Good. JMO

By the way, I think the Appeals system and how it works is so over discussed now. Kate has already probably paid the bill.

Very few people get to the Appeal's system without a lot of money being spent and we know Kate is not going to spend another penny on that fiasco, just talk, cause she lost, she lost, she lost.

Captain of the Titanic said...

Betsy said...
Kate's ready whacking of Emeril, Jon, and Alexis over a whistle outside lead me to believe that Kate had/has the potential to quickly whack the children out of anger and frustration.


Also, if you look at the photos of the family returning from Alaska, there is one photo where Kate and one of the girls are coming thru a door (revolving? Can't remember) and Kate has a firm grip on the little girl's shoulder that must have been hurting, if the look on her poor little face is any indication.

SmileyGrl752 said...

I agree with your opinion, for the reason you said, AND because of the way she smacked Emeril when he was in her kitchen. Emeril was paying attention to Jon rather than Katie Irene, so she whacked him on the arm with a plastic spatula. She did it so casually -- it was an automatic response to displeasure -- and she hit hard enough that Emeril was rubbing his arm afterward. It hurt!

___________________

I remember Kate smacking Emeril, but it wasn't because he was paying attention to Jon. Jon was stirring something in a bowl, and Kate was either telling him hoe to do it right, or mocking him that he was doing it wrong, and Emeril said, "no, leave him alone", and she immediately smacked him. How in the world can she not be embarrassed, she smacked a world class chef just because he told her what to do? Oh right, no one tells Miss Kate what she can and cannot do.

Btw, I believe it was Leah that got spanked for the whistle, not Alexis. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I am one who believes in spanking. I believe smacking a kid on the behind is necessary at times.

However, I also believe you need to spank in love, not anger. Kate, from what I've seen, punishes her kids out of anger for the smallest things. My aunt spanked both her kids when they were younger, and she never did it out of anger. She was calm, and gave them warnings before spanking them.

I do believe spanking can be abuse if taken too far. If you are hot-headed and need anger management, then you most likely spank out of anger. which seems to be Kate's problem.

*gets off soap-box*

O-Hi-O said...

Like so many, I hated the way K8G always dominated and criticized.

She always considered HER way the ONLY 'right' way to do things, and, rather than appreciating the other person's help enough to graciously let them help in their OWN way, utilizing their OWN process for getting the job done, she always showed a complete lack of respect for others and their efforts to help her. I really hated her many lists of absolutely unnecessarily detailed instructions - how insulting, as if she's the only human with a functioning brain and the only one who ever cares enough to perform a task well.

Conversely to her ingratitude and lack of respect for the way others helped, when she was supposed to be allowing Jon to cook Korean, she completely screwed up her part of the recipe. Did she apologize? Not K8G. Instead she blew off her own error as unimportant.

It always bothered me greatly that she had one standard for the behavior of others, holding them to her unnecessarily detailed directives, to be followed always by criticism for their failure to meet her expectations. But the standards she used for her OWN behavior allowed her to never take responsibility for her own errors and NEVER acknowledge her own shortcomings MUCHLESS apologize for them.

Children learn by example. God help the Gosselin kids as they find their way through puberty and beyond.

Philadelphia Worker said...

Jon always sat down with the children and spoke to them about what they did wrong, Kate hit first, then later, when taking them out of time out, explained and they had no choice but to apologize and run away from Kate.

Never saw those kids being taught anything by Kate, she just yells at them over and over. Now, no filming, I think, she is really on a bender and giving those kids a hard time.

Think she would get up and help Cara and Mady learn to bake or cook, which they love doing? No way. Kate is a very lazy person.

I remember during the E show on Kate's life or whatever it was she said "I was studying to be a nurse, to learn to support my children before they were born" and I think I almost had a seizure.

Don't we all learn a trade, get a degree, learn a skill just to support ourselves at 18 or 17?

Kate was planning for her 8 kids at 17 or 18 by getting that 2 yr nursing certificate? Okay whatever she believes.

She had to do something, high school was over.

Kia Ora said...

Philadelphia Worker-I know I have read your other posts before, but can't remember for the life of me, where you met(saw) kate before. You have so much knowledge about her. Call me enquiring minds won't to know? lol. Cheers!

readerlady said...

Apparently Kate was on twitter last night complaining about a "dull" field trip she accompanied the little kids and their classmates on yesterday. Apparently an annual end of term nature hike and picnic. What a shame she had to be the one to go. I'm sure Jon would have appreciated the opportunity and would have shown more gratitude to the teachers and planners of the event. The kids would have been thrilled to have him along, too.

I've always been very apprehensive about the kids' scurrying immediately to "time out". Two year olds just don't do that sort of thing, unless they are very fearful of the consequences. I'm very much afraid that Kate whales the tar out of them for the least little infraction. I'm not against an occasional spanking - a single swat on the behind with an open hand gets a kid's attention and doesn't hurt much. But - it should be rare, as a last resort, and NEVER done in anger. Those pix of Kate laying into Leah were profoundly disturbing. Kate was furious and it showed. It doesn't take much imagination to understand what goes on in that house when the cameras aren't present.

N.E. Psychologist said...

The kids, yes, the kids, I do wonder just how much abuse they did take,............

********

I do not think that the past tense is appropriate, if you get my drift.

bj said...

I agree with Kate can't do sh** about the family moving to the mansion and Kate's complaining about the fridge needing cleaning.
If she can afford to move to the big house, shouldn't she be able to hire someone to clean or better yet, buy a new fridge, the biggest and bestest of all!!! lol.

Philadelphia Worker said...

Kia,

Never knew who she was until DWTS, then starting looking at youtube, TLC and this wonderful web site and another one.Co workers talk about her all the time when she makes the news for something or use to, her name doesn't come up anymore.

Back in the late Fall,
we walk outside at lunchtime and we happened to see the filming on the Phila Art Museum steps and I posted it or rather my co worker told me how to post it.

So we saw Kate, Steve and the whole gang, we were in our uniforms with badges on our outer coats because it was a cool day. She looked across the street at us and looked away. She did not wave or smile.

We were the only 2 people actually standing there watching the filming for a few minutes and the kids constantly falling on the steps as they tried to run up the steps with Jaime, repeatedly. We were concerned they would get hurt, they are tiny.

Filming in and around the historical areas is common. So it rarely creates a crowd of people. We were just on a lunch hour walk.
We were asked to move as we were disturbing filming? We didn't say a word, didn't do anything but stop and stare for a few minutes.

Heard from other co workers, where filming took place, how ignorant Kate is, how disrespectful the children were as they thought they could just run around as though in a playroom, except for 2 of the boys who were very interested in where they were and had questions.

Heard about these 2 boys at other places also, very inquisitive, but no one was allowed to talk to the children or answer their questions.

That is my only contact with the Great Star she thinks she is. That is it. She was rude.

We have a lot of filming going on in Philly. Danny Devito waves to everyone as he has a TV show he films here, so do most celebrities. Bradley Cooper stops and gives autographs.He is from here and does a lot of filming here also. Mel Gibson did film several films here, very nice to everyone.I could go on. Big stars, make movies and they have time for their fans and they don't travel with security.

Oh yes I forgot Reese Witherspoon was here to film a movie with Owen Wilson. She is another Oscar winner. She took her son and daughter to just about every historical area, on her days off, and so low key, no one knew she was in the bldgs., no pre notice. Just showed up, paid, walked about with a hat on and spoke softly to her children. Same with Owen Wilson and some co workers. Very low key and very nice. Same with Reese, very respectful.Well I could go on and on. Never met anyone who is a STAR who was rude to us. They are focused people who want to see these bldgs and learn.

Sometimes we do get notice of a celebrity but not always. They don't request anything other than being able to see everything like a regular person.

Hope I answered your question, what I post is what I see on you tube or see on other sights but never saw her again and wouldn't look this time. Except I do feel sorry for all of those children. At least they will have the money for therapy.

O-Hi-O said...

I thought the Kate Cleans The 'Fridge episode so dumb. WHO the H wants to watch anyone clean a 'fridge???

It was a gorgeous fall day. They were supposedly on a great adventure of moving to a beautiful new home with gorgeous land to explore, so why not make the day/episode about exploring their new yard and having one of those outdoor picnics K8G claims to love so much, rather than the ridiculousness of cleaning a 'fridge and insulting the previous owners. Odd, too, that after devoting an entire episode to establishing how hard K8G had to work to get the 'fridge clean, she quickly replaced it with a new refrigerator.

Philadelphia Worker said...

Kia, Cheers to you too. Did I tell you that I only get information about Kate from the films which appear on youtube and TLC and some films of K+8 when she started that show? I hope so. I have never been around her other than that day outside the museum while they were filming in the cold late Fall, as my co worker just reminded me. Never spoke to her, etc. Only know what other co workers who had to deal with her went thru with her and her entourage.

NE Psychologist, yes, I think she has no interest in her kids. When I watched those little kids trying to run up the steps I felt so bad every time they fell as they are wide steps which require a child to take two steps on each step and to run it is impossible for most of us. We kept thinking the kids are going to hit their heads, faces, etc. Also we didn't see any medical ambulance around while the kids were running up and down, falling, getting up and starting over again.

Now I think of something else, the TLC crew laughed a lot when the kids fell, I think that is what made us stand there and stare at the whole miserable situation. Even Jaime encouraging them to get up. Very sad to me except you can see that those children know they have to work, that is what it was work. They were working as directed. Very sad, hope that show is over.

mamasanb said...

Kate smacked Emeril twice. And she thought it was amusing. Emeril was great with the kids.

Just Down The Road said...

If she can afford to move to the big house, shouldn't she be able to hire someone to clean or better yet, buy a new fridge, the biggest and bestest of all!!! lol.

___

There was nothing wrong with the refrigerator. The entire house, including appliances, had been cleaned by a professional crew before they moved. The refrigerator meltdown was all done for an episode, created for dramatics to show just how hard sh works for the family.

After the episode, the refrigerator went to the basement and a new one was purchased.

Dee Dee said...

Apparently Kate was on twitter last night complaining about a "dull" field trip she accompanied the little kids and their classmates on yesterday.
==============================

Now that's just plain sad. I still look back fondly on my memories of when my son was in pre-school and elementary school, to the times I had the opportunity to participate in the classroom or go on a field trip.

But I guess that's one of the many differences between most moms and Kate - I simply enjoyed being in the presence of my son and his classmates at that age; their enthusiasm and sweetness were a joy to be around. It didn't matter if I was helping them with finger-painting, selecting just the right pumpkin for Halloween, taking a ferry ride across the Bay, or even just sitting in the classroom correcting papers while listening in on the lesson the teacher was giving that day. I enjoyed it all.

Kate may have many material things. She may have brilliantly white teeth, a purchased tan and set of large oobies, her own "body guard," expensive vehicles and a huge home. But inside, she's empty. There's nothing there besides self-absorption. What a dreary life.

I feel so sad for those children, having to grow up with a mom who finds them irritating at best, and disgusting at worst.

Big Wooden Spoon said...

N.E. Psychologist said...
The kids, yes, the kids, I do wonder just how much abuse they did take,............

---
Personally, I am much more concerned about their welfare once Katie Irene's money tree stops producing. In Kate-think, it's ALWAYS someone else's fault, and given their proximity, the kids are going to get blamed big-time. It really scares me.

Luv Steve said...

Did Steve go on the field trip the other day, lol lol.

The Sky's The Limit said...

I think she has no interest in her kids. When I watched those little kids trying to run up the steps I felt so bad every time they fell as they are wide steps which require a child to take two steps on each step and to run it is impossible for most of us.

_______

It sounds like all of them were falling at a constant rate. Is this true? ALL eight kids fell multiple times and there was always at least one of them lying on the steps with nobody to help them up and the crew laughing at them? So much falling on concrete steps must have resulted in some bruising or brush burns. Did anyone need first aid/bandaids?

Reading news said...

Just Down The Road said...
If she can afford to move to the big house, shouldn't she be able to hire someone to clean or better yet, buy a new fridge, the biggest and bestest of all!!! lol.

___

There was nothing wrong with the refrigerator. The entire house, including appliances, had been cleaned by a professional crew before they moved. The refrigerator meltdown was all done for an episode, created for dramatics to show just how hard sh works for the family.

After the episode, the refrigerator went to the basement and a new one was purchased.

..................................

And according to a deliveryman who is a friend of ours, the people who delivered the new one, I think it was a sub-zero, took the old one to the basement where they found several used appliances.

The episode mentioned above where she complained of the dirt and mold she had to clean pointed out how little the people at TLC cared for Kate. It also confirmed something to me that I had thought for sometime - that TLC wanted to show us what a nutcase she was. If you remember, as she complained of the dirt, the cameraman kept doing closeups that showed how clean the refrig actually was. I think for some reason she had it in for the doctor who sold her the house and wanted to make him look bad. All she accomplished was that she made herself look ridiculous.

barbee said...

maybe that doctor was one who refused to do any of the procedures she wanted/needed/demanded in order to get her 'show on the road', so to speak.

In the cleaning scene, my biggest laugh was at the fact that she wasn't wearing rubber gloves while cleaing that 'filth'.

Just a couple of the things about her that make you go, 'hmmmm'.

Mom of 2 Soldiers said...

Kate did gum gate with obsessing over the socks and scaring the kids.

If you put the sock in the freezer, you can eventually get the gum off. Or in her case, throw it away cause they had of free things given to them, didn't they? Then she sold their clothes on consignment.

Whatever TLC did or did not film or how they edited the show. I remember one time that we heard from a former babysitter, who quit, that TLC crew members also asked to be reassigned as they didn't like the way the children were treated. It was in the Enquirer, I think.

They edited Kate to look crazed and obsessive and Jon to look lazy. Sad how these 2 couldn't get out there, get jobs and keep that family together, get those kids off of TV and just not ruin the children's future lives.

Very selfish people.

A field trip is boring? So sad to read that. My son and daughter in law are in Iraq and they would give so much to be home with their kids while my husband and I raise them, while they are overseas. I just pray every night, my son and dil are going to come home safe.

They would go on a field trip, make cup cakes and they live for their kids and their family life.

Pray folks, especially since I remembered this is Memorial Day weekend. So many mothers missing their children.

Kate lives in a fantasy world, she is right, she can't go back to the simple things, can she?

She is a Cow said...

O-Hi-O said...
Odd, too, that after devoting an entire episode to establishing how hard K8G had to work to get the 'fridge clean, she quickly replaced it with a new refrigerator.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Don't you think that was the whole point of all the complaining! I am sure she was looking for some manufacturer to say....Hey Kate, please take one of our refridgerators....after all, you deserve it!!
I remember that episode and at that point was already completely disgusted with Kate's behavior. I believe Jon was with all 8 kids, out in the yard to stay out of the queen's way. Kate will do anything to spend as much time away from her kids as possible...even pretend to clean and already clean refridgerator.

O-Hi-O said...

"Pray folks, especially since I remembered this is Memorial Day weekend. So many mothers missing their children."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Will hold all in the military and their fams in my thoughts. Peace to all.

I agree that it's such a waste that it is K8G who GETS to go on field trips with her kids (and then complains about it), while others are in the military or are single parenting, and, so working prevents their participation in making these school day memories with their kids.

The only thing K8G ever seems to find truly interesting are things that revolve around HER.

And now it is K8G who is revolving/circling the drain, and I, for one, am glad her Karma has finally found her.

NoRubberGlovesNeeded said...

Kate Gosselin Mansion meltdown over the refrigerator was for the viewing public. The cleaning company hired by TLC were told to clean the entire house except the fridge and the cabinets. This was done intentionally so that she could film/produce/have a meltdown.

A few mouse poops in the cabinets and some mold from the fridge after it was shut of intentionally.

However, the DR did not appreciate it too much. He got a settlement for the defamation. Does a reasonable person think that a million plus home of that caliber would be left with a filthy fridge like that?
I clean homes for the very wealthy.

Mostly summer homes here in NH.
They are properly cleaned and closed for the winter. No mold.
The door is left open once cleaned and power shut off.
The fridge would have to be left on, then shut off with the door closed for mold to grow in the crevices.

I know what I am talking about. I do this all of the time.

Clean dry fridge in the fall, clean dry fridge in spring. Turn it on for the homeowners arrival.
Spotless...

She is a nutcase....all for money.