I Don't Get It Either

Can'tSeeSheep said...They're just trying to keep that idiot creature in the news & fresh in people's minds until her new show airs so that she doesn't become last year's news. These are incredibly silly & childish things they're putting out there. It's obvious she's not a cougar, she's not old enough & many men have sounded off about her lack of hotness, just look at the comment boards on other sites, especially when they ask if kate is hot, men tend to sound off with some pretty negative responses.
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Kate does not appeal to men. No man wants to be henpecked and hounded that way. She has certainly let the world know how she feels about men.

Kate does, however, appeal to a lot of women. For some very strange reason there are some women of every age group who absolutely worship the ground she walks on.

Why is that?

Do they wish they could treat men the way she does? Why do they see her as incredably organized? Don't they understand Kate gives orders and other people carry them out?

How on earth can they see her as a wonderful mother?

I don't get it.

Thanks to Merrilee.

90 comments:

Jane in California said...

I don't get it either Merillee. It's not like we even had to ferret out Kate's atrocious behavior -- it's memorialized on episode after episode. All I can figure is that there must be other women out there just like Kate -- and she validates their own bad behavior.

I also think there are a large number of women who are unhappy with their lot in life -- maybe they got married very young, don't have a career, aren't really happy as SAHMs, their kids get on their nerves, they feel frustrated because they can't go out and buy expensive clothes, etc. In Kate, they see someone who is like them, yet in their eyes, successful.

A lot of admiration really seems to stem from women who buy into the whole "she's so organized," or "she's so capable" story line. Kate is anything but organized or capable of much, but I do have to admit -- for pure singlemindedness of purpose, for utter determination to succeed no matter the cost -- Kate does have that in full measure.

I think a lot of her fans are also younger women - from tweens to highschoolers, and even college students. Young, unmarried, childless, impressionable. They still think that relationships are naturally full of drama, life is like The Hills, and screeching, smacking others or otherwise making an ass of yourself is somehow acceptable behavior. It's weird. I can't account for it.

Anonymous said...

She ruined her chances with men. I'm a woman, but, I could clearly see the mistakes she made with Jon just by watching the show. Kate missed the old Jon because that Jon was under her full and complete control. I was watching a celebrity news show today and the panel was asked who they thought was responsible for the divorce. Of course the panel said both, but, I truly believe it was Kate. Kate's contribution to the marital disaster occurred prior to the separation. What Jon did post-separation has no value to the dissolution. It's Kate's fault. I found humor in the shows following their separation, where Kate NOW wants to try new things. It's a bit late, Kate, don't you think?
Glad to read that Kate is too controversial for the Momlogic Show. She's overexposed and personally, not interesting as an individual.

Sugar's Sister said...

There are a few reasons why women would like her.

1. They saw Jon going out drinking with other women in April. The divorce wasn't announced until June. Therefore, she is a cheated-on victim, which makes her sympathetic. Unless they read this site, they wouldn't know the rumors (which I and most of us here believe) about the secret agreement, her blackmailing him to stay home with the kids, etc. Jon-girlfriend in April. Separation-June. Jon is bad, Kate is pitiful. Period.

2. I hate to slam on my own sex, but it seems a lot of women can't seem to form a critical opinion of anything or anybody. Go on some boards aimed mostly for women, and it is a zone free of any sarcasm, snarkiness, or even honest criticism. Anyone who does say something negative is immediately attacked by a bunch of Pollyannas. Kate was marketed as being a super mom with great organizational skills, therefore a lot of ladies believe it. If it's spun that her mistreatment of Jon is due to stress of having so many kids--to them it is. The people of GWOP can say "wait a minute, she wasn't under stress when she lost it over the coupon. There weren't five toddlers lost in a maze at that time. She can afford full price for a shower head. She was way out of line." But some women, sadly, can't or won't.

3. Narcissists are fascinating. They have a charm that completely envelops certain people, but leave others feeling cold. My mother insists a certain political figure is the male Kate Gosselin, but this isn't a political board, so I'll say no more.

Not Watching TLC said...

Be very afraid of the people that Khate appeals too. These are women who are wanting someone to tell them that their boorish behavior is okay. Khate justifies to them that men are evil, that just being a mom gives you superiority, and that others should wait on your because you deserve it just for existing.

Khate validates the way they live their life and that is indeed... scary.

Kathleen said...

My fiance's mother loves Kate. It's probably the one thing I honestly dislike about her. Somehow she sees a lot of similaties between herself and Kate even though they aren't there. My fiance's mother was a real single mom when her husband walked out of them when my fiance was 12. This man has never bothered to contact his children following leaving their mother. My fiance is 28 with no relationship with his father for 16 years. His mother admires Kate thinking they are both "strong single moms" even though Kate is a weak fool who doesn't deserve the title of mom. She also likes Jon still and for some reason thinks Jon is or was a real IT professional instead of an overgrown child. She probably secretely hopes that Jon and Kate will reunite.

jibberjabbers said...

Just watch the Questions and Answers of Kate at the Southern Women's Show in Charlotte.

You'll get an idea of the type of people that support Kate. Also, read the comments posted on Radar.

These are highly educated women with background in Law, Child Psychology, and Communication.

Ohio Buckeye said...

I wonder if part of this puzzling phenomenon is that we are talking about basically narcissistic women, who have an unfounded belief in their own superiority.

I wonder if they at least subconsciously choose to marry passive men. Possibly men who are not quite their intellectual equals (dumb comes in all sizes/unlimited levels). Men who are attracted to a partner who will take charge and give some structure to their easy-going and relatively goalless life.

Once married, the same factors that initially seemed attractive to these narcissistic women (inferior IQ and passivity) eventually become increasingly annoying to the very women who chose based on these exact traits.

Staying with a partner with these traits can serve many purposes, including not having to face the struggles and pain of divorce plus the added bonus of each day offering opportunities to use the spouse as a way to continually stoke the narcisist's enormous need to feel superior.

So, in the final analysis, these women probably chose wisely for themselves by selecting a partner that can effectively be utilized as a scapegoat and to maintain the narcissistic need to feel superior.

Seems to me Kate in a nutshell. Sadly,as we've learned, Kate G does not have the corner on this pathetic market. Look around: pathology abounds.

Ohio Buckeye said...

Sugar's Sister: For whatever it's worth, I agree with your mom on your #3.

Ohio Buckeye said...

@Sugar's Sister: oops! I misread your comment and, so, have to take back a comment I sent in response.

In quickly reading your post, I missed the word, 'male'. Actually, a female politician came to my mind when thinking of a Kate clone.....

Ohio Buckeye said...

Jibber Jabbers said, "Just watch the Questions and Answers of Kate at the Southern Women's Show in Charlotte.

You'll get an idea of the type of people that support Kate. Also, read the comments posted on Radar.

These are highly educated women with background in Law, Child Psychology, and Communication."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Jibbers, are you saying that Kate supporters are highly educated women with backgrounds in Law, Child, Psych, and Communication?

EHM said...

I have a facebook friend (and other association) who is a true sheeple. Same 'do and loves Kate. She is also an intelligent young lady. Most of her posts on FB have to do with Vitton purses and Stope (sic) dinnerware and other superficial things. Maybe sheeple are just envious of the "good" life Kate is living in having all these status material things. Maybe the sheeple are just "jellus."

jibberjabbers said...

Ohio Buckeye said...
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Jibbers, are you saying that Kate supporters are highly educated women with backgrounds in Law, Child, Psych, and Communication?


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LOL, no I was being little sarcastic. If you read any of the comments posted in radar or see any clips of the women's conference of Kate and her supporters talking, you would see what I'm talking about.

Aunt Chris said...

Not only is she NOT a cougar, do they even understand that a cougar goes for YOUNGER men? Right in the article is says Kate is 34 and Bobby Dean is 39. Blows your credibility right there.

Miss said...

jibberjabbers,

I caught your comment as being a sarcastic one toward the sheeple that post on ROL....They are anything BUT. Good one JJ!

Just My Few Canadian Cents said...

"You'll get an idea of the type of people that support Kate. Also, read the comments posted on Radar.

These are highly educated women with background in Law, Child Psychology, and Communication."
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Liked this.
I have yet to meet someone in my personal life that defends Kate or admires her. Instead, the people whom I spoke with about J&K throw their support behind Jon even if they aren't familiar with the show. And these people are educated and accomplished. I know you can't generalize about all sheeple, but from what I've seen of and heard from Kate's fans and supporters they don't come across as educated, intelligent, insightful or articulate people. (I'm not suggesting that all fans of Kate aren't intelligent, but the trend I've observed indicates that the more intelligent a person is, the less likely they are to like Kate.) So, I wonder if this is the reason Kate made derogatory comments about her fans and was rude and obnoxious to them - maybe she was disheartened that her fans dpn't possess the kind of traits and intelligence and educational levels she would have hoped they did.

Jane in California said...

Would we agree that the people (mostly women) that like Kate or think she is admirable could be considered shallow? They look no further than the surface, aren't really the type of people who analyze situations but instead take it on face value. They accept without question whatever is being sold to them, so if Kate is marketed as a tough but loving mom of a huge brood, their minds go no further and lock in on "tough but loving"?

Another aspect of being shallow is that appearances are so important. What name brand designers you wear, the whiteness of your teeth, the high end cars, the McMansion -- all surface, material things. If you have those things - you must be good. If you don't - ewww, yucky.

Kate is the perfect example of having money to burn, but no taste. It's all surface because there's nothing intellectual underneath. So maybe she appeals to the same sort?

Brummygirl said...

Well I just ventured over to the sheeple site to see what they had to say about Kate being rejected from the Paula Deen show.
It is rather strange over there with the Kate idolatry so I did not stay long, but long enough to see someone post how much she misses her day to day viewing of Kate and misses how Kate helped her to keep her house clean!
Of course their leader thinks Kate will be able to work on any media show and was blaming Paula being envious of Kate's star image (in so many words). Unbelievable!!!
I shake my head that anyone can be so gullible and feel it is unhealthy to the point of being scary the way some of them pattern their lives on Kate.

my9cats said...

Sheeple need to be shod.
They scare me with their stupidity.

On another note: Merry Christmas all.
Put all things Gosselin out of your mind and have a safe and great holiday.

lifeoriley said...

Re: Jane in California
I agree with many of the insights in your comments.
Some of Kate's fans also seem to be "younger" mothers who are more concerned about the house they live in, the car they drive, and the wardrobe and appearance of themselves and their child(ren) than the emotional health and well-being of their families. It's not that they don't care--it's just that their priorities are screwed up. As has been stated, they are shallow.
Also, I agree with the assertion that a generation of people who grew up watching shows like the Real World, Laguna Beach, The Hills, Maury, etc. may think that all this drama and classless behavior is "normal" or even desireable. It recent years the explosion of the reality/competition genre has added even more shows to the mix--targeting all age groups. Many people have become desensitized to "bad", rude, mean, obnoxious, humiliating behavior.
My mother is not a sheeple, but she "understands" some of the allure of the glamorous life that Kate aspires to. She does admit that Kate's children will probably grow up to resent her, maybe dislike her (even though they will probably love her as their mother). I told my mother that if Kate wanted the glamorous life, maybe she shouldn't have rushed to have children. My mom agreed and added, "Maybe she shouldn't have had children in the first place."

toeachtheirown said...

The thing that makes me a little uncomfortable about conversations like this is that there is a tendency on the part of some to attribute only undesirable traits (such as shallow-ness, boorish behavior,lack of intellect etc..)to the "sheeple".
Clearly there must be something "wrong" with them if they like Kate.
Which of course implies that if you dislike Kate you are not shallow, do not engage in boorish behavior and are "smarter" than the average "sheeple". In other words, what's "wrong" with them is "right" with you.

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Kate. But I don't automatically assume that anyone who does like her is "wrong" or deficient in some way.
There are lots of things I don't understand the appeal of---Ultimate Fighting, WWE, soap operas, slot machines, fireworks,target shooting, hockey, tanning beds, Martha Stewart, celebrity news and on and on and on. But I never automatically assume that anyone who does like any (or all) of those things has something wrong with them.

I've seen the "why do you like Kate?" question posed several times and the result is almost always the same. If a so-called "sheeple" actually does make an attempt at answering the question, their post is followed quickly by person after person telling them they are wrong for feeling/thinking what they do. There seems to be very little attempt to actually understand what they're saying. Or acceptance of their thoughts or feelings as valid. I often get the uncomfortable feeling that the person who posted the question isn't looking for any actual discussion on the matter, they just want another opening to say "you're wrong/stupid/shallow/misinformed over and over. Albeit generally in a polite way.

I'm not trying to sound preachy or say the "sheeple" aren't fair game for being mocked and ridiculed. Heck, I get endless hours of amusement reading comments here. But I think it's important to remember that the online community of "sheeple" is a very small cross section of Kate's actual fans. I would hate to see some of her more sane supporters (and yes I do believe she has some supporters who are perfectly normal, bright, friendly people)tarred with the same brush as some of her crazier and more fervent online supporters.

My grandmother (may she rest in peace) always used to tell me that the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything and liked the same things. Differences are what makes the world interesting. I don't get the appeal of Kate, but I guess my attitude is more "to each their own". So I say mock on and keep up your hysterically funny posts, but at the same time maybe try to keep in mind that not all Kate supporters are terrible people. As they say--reasonable minds can disagree.

Ohio Buckeye said...

LifeORiley said, "Also, I agree with the assertion that a generation of people who grew up watching shows like the Real World, Laguna Beach, The Hills, Maury, etc. may think that all this drama and classless behavior is "normal" or even desireable. It recent years the explosion of the reality/competition genre has added even more shows to the mix--targeting all age groups. Many people have become desensitized to "bad", rude, mean, obnoxious, humiliating behavior.
My mother is not a sheeple, but she "understands" some of the allure of the glamorous life that Kate aspires to. She does admit that Kate's children will probably grow up to resent her, maybe dislike her (even though they will probably love her as their mother). I told my mother that if Kate wanted the glamorous life, maybe she shouldn't have rushed to have children. My mom agreed and added, "Maybe she shouldn't have had children in the first place."

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Riley, well said! I especially like your thoughts about the increasing number of 'reality' and inane competition and soap opera-type programming.

If one took these stupid shows seriously, one might think intelligence, sophistication, integrity, and class have all died.

I am especially saddened at the portrayal of young women on these programs as dumb, slutty, obnoxious creatures who create and feed on drama.

Women have worked hard to achieve equality in our society. How sad that in this day and age, tv continues to portray our gender as shallow and one dimensional.

re: your mom's comment about Katan, AMEN. From what we've observed, Katan's decision to have children was likely less about wanting to become a loving mother and more about finding a way to stand out in the crowd as 'special'. Taking the multiples route seems merely the means to Katan's chosen end: attention and the feeling of being 'special'.

Lauren said...

Quoted from original post:

"Kate does, however, appeal to a lot of women. For some very strange reason there are some women of every age group who absolutely worship the ground she walks on.

Why is that?

Do they wish they could treat men the way she does? Why do they see her as incredably organized? Don't they understand Kate gives orders and other people carry them out?

How on earth can they see her as a wonderful mother?

I don't get it."

________________________________________

I think many women have bought into the false image of Kate that TLC pushes on T.V. If they only knew the "truth" about Kate they probably wouldn't feel that way.

On Kate being organized: According to Kevin and Jodi who have credible behind the scenes info, it takes many people to organize Kate's household. Kate isn't doing any of it - it's all TLC.

On Kate being an incredible cook/baker: Again it's the TLC elves working behind the scenes to make it appear that Kate is a super-mom.

Did you guys know that Kate has two nannies? One for the morning shift to get the kids up and ready for school and one for the evening shift to put the kids to bed. Kate doesn't have much contact with the kids. Even when it is her custody time, she is usually off in LA or NY working on business deals.

I used to be a sheeple, but it took one incident where I started questioning the sham known as J&K+8.

The sheeple don't question, they just absorb. They just stare blankly into the t.v. screen and go along with it.

Ohio Buckeye said...

@ToEachTheirOwn: You bring up a very valid point.

I think part of it is some of us see Kate's behavior and treatment of others SO obviously pathological that we struggle to understand how anyone can see it any other way.

Kate G is not a middle of the road personality - she seems to evoke strong feelings, and, for those of us here at GWoP, those feelings are heavily negative because we do not condone Kate's insensitivity and meanness and disrepect towards others. We are at a loss as to understanding how/why anyone can give Kate G a pass for her behaviors.

Your point is well taken and made me stop and think. Thanks for that.

N.E. Psychologist said...

toeachhisown said

(snipped) But I think it's important to remember that the online community of "sheeple" is a very small cross section of Kate's actual fans. I would hate to see some of her more sane supporters (and yes I do believe she has some supporters who are perfectly normal, bright, friendly people) tarred with the same brush as some of her crazier and more fervent online supporters.
********************************
First of all, let's hope those crazier and fervent supporters stay "online." Real fanatics are people to be very wary of.
Ok, I think the Kate probably does have some relatively sane supporters, but to my recollection not one of them has made a valid case. Their arguments, while sounding reasonable, rely primarily on Kate's descriptions of herself as hardworking and organized etc.,etc. This is how she was actually presented early on which made that fairly easy to believe. Some couples use mild insults as a form of endearment. And she has 8 kids! No, I'm not being sarcastic. This is what caught my attention - how the hell does anyone cope? And the kids are adorable!
Speaking for myself, I often multitask with the tv on ( have very few favorite shows) so it took me longer than some others to start paying attention to what what many (myself included) now see as the "real" Kate. But there were things that seriously disturbed me when I saw them: gumgate, sick child on the floor, insults to Jon and the kids and more, so I started paying closer attention. The trips and events got to be over the top. I stopped watching when they promoted the vow renewal (at 9 years? dress from Kleinfeldt? Hawaii? oh puleeze). I'd still catch an occasional rerun and notice more and more disturbing things. (OK - I have to say this - I stopped watching the licentious channel the first time I saw a promo for the "big announcement" with that poor little girl crying inside a car saying "Daddy don't go" to Jon. That pushed me OVER THE EDGE).
So to give these sane supporters the benefit of the doubt - how much have they watched the actual show; were they paying attention; give specific, concrete examples of her work ethic, organizational skills, mothering, whatever makes them suppport her. But I agree, they should not be labeled as sheeple. So ok, "not a sheeple" make your case. Sheeple, by definition, do not have a case to make.

Pa Mom Knows said...

"Sheeple need to be shod."

Why would a sheeple need a shoe? LOL!! Merry Christmas!

kimmie said...

toeachtheirown Thank you! Your post made me cry because I feel the same way and I am glad to see compassion and caring here.

toeachtheirown said...

@OhioBuckeye

....for those of us here at GWoP, those feelings are heavily negative because we do not condone Kate's insensitivity and meanness and disrepect towards others.

I understand where you're coming from and actually agree with you 100%. Kate G is an abhorrent little troll of a woman who has no manners, no class and no style.She has no
empathy for anyone other than herself and sees those
around her as nothing more than serfs sent to do her bidding. That she chose to sell her own soul for fame and fortune is pathetic--that she chose to sell the childhoods of her eight precious children for the same is criminal and she should rot for it. She sails through her days in an odd alternate reality with no ability to discern the difference between being "popular" and being reviled. She plows her way through every situation with a staggering inability to "read a room". She's a hypocrite, a user, a liar and a manipulator. She put her life out there on tv to be judged and commented on and she has no right to be upset when it happens. She bought a ticket on the ride--she has to put up with the potholes. I have absolutely no problem with anyone making any comments about Kate herself.


We are at a loss as to understanding how/why anyone can give Kate G a pass for her behaviors.

I hear ya. I don't necessarily get it either. I just try very hard to accept that I'll probably never understand lots of things--including why some people don't see through Kate. I just think that people often have such different world views and personal experiences and it can be so hard to understand why they can't see what seems so clear to the rest of us--or if they see it how they can process it so differently or so willingly forgive it--
I just don't necessarily think it's because they lack intellect or depth.

All 4 of my grandparents were old country Irish. First generation immigrants. One side of the family are liberal, hard-drinking, loud talking, no filter between their brain and their mouth rabble rousers and what I like to call "twinkle in their eye troublemakers". The other side are conservative, church going, tea-totaling, quiet, reserved, never raise their voices and never make a scene in public types. I've been negotiating tenuous peace between factions with diametrically opposed opinions my whole life. Maybe that's where I'm coming from here as well. LOL

Your point is well taken and made me stop and think. Thanks for that.

I consider that a high compliment indeed. Thanks very much.

Judy said...

I think some people look at Kate and think , "Wow, she has everything I want!" She rose from lower middle income, unable to take care of herself to a woman able to buy whatever she wants, whenever she wants, a woman who lives in a million dollar home, is given lavish trips and gifts, is on tv, and has eight very attractive children. Kate's life looks charmed to a lot of these people and they feel a sense that she's EARNED the right to live like this and maybe, just maybe, the same "wonderful" things could happen to them, too. I don't know that they even see Kate, the personality. They just see Kate, the "goddess."

Ohio Buckeye said...

To Each Their Own: What a thoughtful and beautiful post. One of the best I've ever read.

I'm guessing holiday celebrations with such a diverse family must be very interesting and fun! I greatly admire your approach to be a nonjudgmental peacemaker who strives to find the value in those on opposing side of the fence.

Best wishes for a very happy holiday and new year and thanks for your thought-provoking comments.

CityGirl said...

OMG!!! I was visiting over at the Cole Haan Shoe site, window shopping, and saw those zebra hooker heels Kate was wearing in one of the errand runs. Price $109.50 Also, the boots she was wearing in another pic, while visiting "Payless Shoe Source" for the kids. Price of boots anyone? $ 350.00 !! She is really livin big, while crying to the media that Jon stole all her money. and going to a cheap store for the kiddies, must have had to buy their stuff...Hers gotta be free or else she is spending some serious doe on herself. Naw, not kate, I forgot everything she does is for the kids.

Rose said...

For me, it is getting harder and harder to deal with the "sheeple" that still exist. One of them told me recently that I am so consumed with by my dislike of Kate, I am blind to the fact that she truly is a good mother who is thinking of her kids first and doing the best she can in difficult circumstances. I swear, this blog is the only thing that keeps my blood pressure from shooting up to unhealthy levels! It is amazing how many people continue to idolize and support her, but I have to believe that many of them have just defended her for so long, and now they don't want to back down. They don't want to admit that the evidence is right there on the television, in front of their faces, every single day, because it proves that everything they used to think about the Gosselins has been nothing but a lie.

Why do people continue to adore Kate, you ask? It's anybody's guess, but I'll take a stab at it. Jon's behavior has given her a huge advantage in the sympathy category. Fellow mothers see Jon parading around with other women, and they feel sorry for her. She's the poor, victimized wife stuck at home with all eight of those kids, forced to pick up all the slack in her husband's absence - because of course, the sheeple truly believe that she's handling them all on their own at this point. There are pro-Kate women all around the country who look at her situation and see Jon as the monster who decided he no longer wanted to be married to her or be a father to their children - as if he forced her to make those vows. As if she was held at gunpoint throughout their wedding ceremony back in 1999. As if he was the one who blackmailed her into having all those children, then decided he wanted out of the marriage.

You see, that's the whole thing of it. None of it is Kate's fault, according to them. She sits in front of the cameras with her fake crocodile tears and "I am pulling this ship all by myself" act, and they fall for it every single time. Jon's actions have been so explicit and well-covered by the media, so it's easy for some to feel that Kate is the victim.

What bugs me the most is that yes, Jon has been a true fool. He has made some absolutely awful decisions that are hurting his own kids. I am not here to say that he hasn't. But when people are willing to stick all the blame on him and martyr Kate, that's just wrong. Do the sheeple not realize that two people can be wrong in a given situation? Maybe she hasn't been running around with all kinds of different men in front of everyone, but does that make her innocent? NO!!! People see a woman whose husband cheated on her, and they are prone to feeling bad for her. They are tempted to believe that no matter how difficult she might be at times, she does not deserve to be cheated on.

Well, here's my question in response to that: did Jon ever deserve to be treated like Kate's ninth child? Wait, that's being too kind. She treated him more like an animal, plain and simple. I don't even need to give any examples. The show's footage will take care of that, if only you take the time to watch it. If you love Kate and the show so much, how about actually watching it, paying attention to her words, getting past your constant idolizing, and choose to see what is right in front of you? One thing about Kate's attitude is this: she doesn't hide it. Kate is Kate's favorite person in the world, and she makes no apologies for her actions...unless you count the "lip service" where she says she was wrong, just for the sake of garnering sympathy from her "fans", then fails to do a single thing about it.

Again, the proof is right there in black and white. Just open your eyes and look right at it. Honestly, there shouldn't even be a need to explain it. I don't understand why anybody would deny Kate's behavior over and over.

Rose said...

And as a side note...I agree with Jane. A lot of Kate's fans are teenagers, college students, and young women in their 20's who have grown up watching dramatic relationships unfold through reality television. They think it's normal, when in fact it is just plain weird - and undeserving of public attention. In essence, these are people getting paid millions of dollars to play victim and act like idiots. It's time for those of us who know better to step up and say that it's NOT normal behavior, and it should NEVER be considered acceptable. It's really too bad that this kind of behavior is condoned so much by the media. It's sick, really. I hope it turns around eventually.

fidosmommy said...

Please, somebody enumerate the ways Kate Gosselin is a good mother. Please, somebody explain that to me. I admit, I have missed every one of them, but am willing to learn.

How is Kate a "good mother"?

"She loves her kids". OK. Even the worst mother ever "loves" her kids - even in some kind of demented way. Crack addicts and
murderers "love their kids", but that doesn't mean they don't do them serious harm along the way.
Parents who "love their kids" have been known to act in ways that show they don't have what it takes to raise young human beings. So, telling me that Kate "loves her kids" tells me very little about her mothering skills.

Next argument for the virtues of Kate the mother? Please?

PA Woman said...

I was in a 'discussion' with a sheeple about Kate. Everytime she knocked down Jon, I came back with an equal action by Kate. She finally said "WE don't care what Kate does, because we Love her".

So there you go.

BTW the few I know a background on are upper 30's and never married; young with lots of kids; or divorced.

I can kind of understand the first two, but the divorced? It seems to me a real single mom would resent Kate representing herself as one. Oh well.

Frankie May said...

CityGirl Said "OMG!!! I was visiting over at the Cole Haan Shoe site, window shopping, and saw those zebra hooker heels Kate was wearing in one of the errand runs. Price $109.50 Also, the boots she was wearing in another pic, while visiting "Payless Shoe Source" for the kids. Price of boots anyone? $ 350.00 !!"

I can assure you that I am in no way whatsoever a Kate supporter. I can also assure you that Hookers do not shop @ Cole Haan.

IMO there is nothing wrong with 30+ year old women w/ children wearing normal business/dress attire that can be purchased at any mall USA. Working Girls Do not buy their Costumes at the mall, they have their own shops for that and Kate is not wearing anything that even closely resembles it.

I am a strong believer in wearing what makes you feel good no matter your age, or lack of ethics. Honestly I think Peg Bundy was Mess but she rocked her wardrobe none the less. Kate could never pull off a Peg, let alone a "Pretty Woman" again, just my opinion.

Many Thanks to ToEachTheirOwn for the thoughtful and eloquent post.

Happy Holidays to all.

Not a Sheeple said...

I don't care one way or another about Kate to be honest - like everybody else in the world she has her good points and her bad.
I have found myself defending her a couple of times on the internet because I ran into some comments that were downright ridiculous lies - and yes I was immediately accused of being a 'sheeple' for my defense.
I think that when people make comments that are TOO extremely hateful about Kate (or Jon) it backfires and rubs people the wrong way, which detracts from the valid points.

N.E. Psychologist said...

Frankie May said
(snipped) I am a strong believer in wearing what makes you feel good no matter your age, or lack of ethics.
************
Lack of ethics is the key. Cole Haan for mom but Payless for the kids.

Pa Mom Knows said...

@Frankie May
"I am a strong believer in wearing what makes you feel good no matter your age, or lack of ethics."

What about if what you wear is an embarrassment to your children? What if your kids are at an age when they notice men staring at your new "girls" in anticipation that one (or both) will pop out in your low-cut top? Isn't there "appropriate" dress when one is the mother of young children, and one should put aside the "feel good" self indulgence for the sake of the kids?

Elvira said...

"I am a strong believer in wearing what makes you feel good no matter your age, or lack of ethics."

Are you prepared for your children to be teased because of what mommy wears? Do you enjoy the other parents tittering about your dress? Are you begging for attention and want to be the center of it rather than your children? I'm a getting on in years granny and retired teacher. Trust me I know the type. Time to reconsider unless the above type reasons are your agenda or you just happened to want to drop by and be perverse. Don't forget that the issue is age old. In fact there is a very old expression for the problem - "mutton dressed as lamb."

BobS said...

Judy said...
I think some people look at Kate and think, "Wow, she has everything I want!" She rose from lower middle income, unable to take care of herself to a woman able to buy whatever she wants, whenever she wants, a woman who lives in a million dollar home, is given lavish trips and gifts, is on tv, and has eight very attractive children. Kate's life looks charmed to a lot of these people and they feel a sense that she's EARNED the right to live like this and maybe, just maybe, the same "wonderful" things could happen to them, too. I don't know that they even see Kate, the personality. They just see Kate, the "goddess."

----------------------------------

The lifestyle that K8 has "earned" has been on the backs of her children, the old Jon, parents, Jodi, Kevin, Beth, volunteers, donors and everyone else she used, stepped on or over to get where she is. TLC has used her as much as she has used them in a co-dependent relationship. If not for the tups, she would be totally unknown.

If the tups never happened, I think that K8 and Jon would have split up anyway. She would have left for the finer things in life she wouldn't have gotten with Jon. She would have looked to become a trophy wife for some doctor or lawyer and all the benefits that come with it.

Pa Mom Knows said...

@PA Woman

"I was in a 'discussion' with a sheeple about Kate. Everytime she knocked down Jon, I came back with an equal action by Kate. She finally said "WE don't care what Kate does, because we Love her".

So, in essence, they are blind and incapable of analyzing the situation because their minds are made up? Did you ask her what they love about her? Do the sheeple ever have valid points to back up their arguments, or do they just go along with tabloid/internet gossip without verifying stories that are presented as "facts?"

It would be interesting to discern exactly why Kate is emulated. Is it her personality? Perhaps it's her sense of humor! Or is it because she has "made it big" and therefore rose above the average middle-class wife to become a "celebrity," therefore living much more than the Great American Dream?

I would love to do an ethnographic study of sheeple, including demographics and socio-economic status. I'd include those who comment on ROL -- those who cannot spell, cannot write a gramatically correct sentence, and cannot logically express their thoughts rationally without resorting to low-class, urban slang.

PA Woman said...

Pa Mom Knows said...

So, in essence, they are blind and incapable of analyzing the situation because their minds are made up? Did you ask her what they love about her? Do the sheeple ever have valid points to back up their arguments, or do they just go along with tabloid/internet gossip without verifying stories that are presented as "facts?"

*********************

Valid points---LOL They keep going back to what a good Mother she is, and start talking about her first book. When you bring up points about Kate, they usually just counter with points about Jon. They don't seem to realize that Jon's actions are not a defense against Kate's actions. They insist filming is a good thing because of the opportunities it has brought the kids, the TV crew is their family, and that having the crew around is their "normal life". Jon is taking away their "normal life". I have never heard any so illogical in my life. But they believe it.

PA Woman said...

N.E. Psychologist said...
toeachhisown said

I think the Kate probably does have some relatively sane supporters, but to my recollection not one of them has made a valid case. Their arguments, while sounding reasonable, rely primarily on Kate's descriptions of herself as hardworking and organized etc.,etc. This is how she was actually presented early on which made that fairly easy to believe.
*****************

I think it depends on how you define supports. I know a few people that support Kate that I think are sane peole. But, they only watched the show occasion, don't even read the tabloids but have caught an ocassional story about the divorce say on CNN, the local newspaper, or a mainstream media. To them it looks like Jon dated behind her back and walked out on her.

So, they may not be avid fans, but if you as them about the situation they would support Kate and do think she is a good mother.

But, there is no way I would call them Sheeple. They do not see Kate as a role model and they are not out promoting here.

Betty said...

Do the sheeple believe that the original crew is still with them? Even Kate has admitted that all or virtually all the original crew is long gone and that they ended up with a constantly rotating crew at the end. Translation: no one could stand working with the primadonna witch for very long. To allow children to form strong attachments to the crew worried me from the beginning. To have anyone see a work relationship as a friendship is not something to teach a child IMO.

Ohio Buckeye said...

@Betty: And so much for Kate's claiming the kids 'sobbed' because they miss the crew so much.

Yeah, right.

Pa Mom Knows said...

@PA Woman:

"They insist filming is a good thing because of the opportunities it has brought the kids, the TV crew is their family, and that having the crew around is their "normal life". Jon is taking away their "normal life". I have never heard any so illogical in my life. But they believe it."

The truly frightening aspect of this is that, given the chance, they would do exactly the same thing - sell their kids because the end (money, 'culturing' experiences and material possessions) justifies the means (exploitation). Then in a few years there would be multiples of emotionally messed up kids in serious therapy.

The sheeple and Kate supporters just don't get it because they can't (or won't) think logically. Perhaps they just don't have the life experiences or ability to look at the whole picture in order to see the falacy of their adoration. The lifestyles of the rich and famous appear to be pretty darn good to those on the outside looking in, but the problems on the inside (those dirty little secrets) many times tears families apart (think Tiger Woods).

Can't See Sheep said...

Pa Mom Knows said...
I would love to do an ethnographic study of sheeple, including demographics and socio-economic status. I'd include those who comment on ROL -- those who cannot spell, cannot write a gramatically correct sentence, and cannot logically express their thoughts rationally without resorting to low-class, urban slang.
-------------------

That is an interesting idea. If you got paid for it, I wonder if they'd see it as money being made off of their backs, or if they'd realize all the hard work that went into it, it certainly wouldn't put itself together, facts don't wander into a publisher on their own & get published or make themselves into something interesting. Who am I kidding, they'd write you hate mail & haunt your website. I'd have one request to add to that list & that is I'm curious what percentage of them could be classified with having NPD (narcissistic personality disorder).

Elvira said...
"mutton dressed as lamb."
-----------------

That's so perfect for kate. She needs a bumper sticker with that on it. Yes, on her & her car, tsk, I know what you people are thinking. :-)

kate's become the "look where I spent the money of my exploited children" walking visual. More stitches than Frankenstein's monster & not nearly as cute.

Reading news said...

Betty said...
Do the sheeple believe that the original crew is still with them? Even Kate has admitted that all or virtually all the original crew is long gone and that they ended up with a constantly rotating crew at the end. Translation: no one could stand working with the primadonna witch for very long. To allow children to form strong attachments to the crew worried me from the beginning. To have anyone see a work relationship as a friendship is not something to teach a child IMO.
-----------------------------------
Betty,

I think you are probably right about no one being able to stand being around Khate for too long. I also think that Scott, who was one of the original crewmembers, has always seemed to be so comfortable with the Duggars. I guess Michelle Duggar is a breath of fresh air after spending time with Mrs. G.

CityGirl said...

Re: Frankie May
I really don't know where hookers shop, however, I do know that kate has been seen in platform "HOOKER" heels looking very hookerish. The same ones I saw at the Cole Haan site. I also, IMO, think she leans toward the look of a hooker because she is so very desperate for attention. So hookers just might shop at Cole Haan. The thing that insults me the most about Kate is her claim about the "poor single mom craP" I will tell what a single mom is... I am a single mom, the daughter of a true single mom who raised 9 kids all by herself! She didn't walk around in heels and mini skirts, because that would have taken time away from taking care of us,. She cleaned peoples houses and we slept on the floors of low income apts. She finally learned to drive a car at age 36 after she got enough courage to leave my dad, he never would allow her to drive, after he beat her so bad while she was preg with my youngest brother that he died 12 hrs after he was born. Kate DOES NOT KNOW what a single mom means. She needs to shut her pot hole! She makes me sick. Anyone who wanders around town in her getup while claiming to breath for her 8 is a complete and total fraud. There isn't a thing wrong with feeling good about ones self. However, I can certainly tell the difference between feeling good about ones self and being an ego maniac. Also, a person who spend more time on herself than her 8, who are in mags with bedheads most of the time and looking like they dressed themselves, While mom was admiring herself in the mirror! That is Kate! She insults the real single moms of the world who do take care of their own kids and not just talk about it!!!!!!!!! Also, her fans, I think are people with very low self esteem. Who look to anyone for their inspiration. Probably grannys, middle aged failures, young girls who didn't have much of a mother themself. I usually don't wish failure on anyone. I lived a tough life. I do, however, wish the greatest amount of failure on Kate Gosselin that one person can receive! I hope she finds herself in a tiny apt. like the one jon is in and back in the heating assistance line. When someone came from such tough time and their life changes like Kate's , and she cannot be greatful or graceful?? And treat people like disposable wipes? Yea, I wish her a great deal of failure.

Can't See Sheep said...

Reading news said...
I guess Michelle Duggar is a breath of fresh air after spending time with Mrs. G.
-------------------------

lol! Genghis Khan would seem positively charming after dealing with kate.

Skeet said...

IMO Kate is the better parent. I am not a sheeple. Jon is an irresponsible clod. IMO there is not a conspiracy against Jon, he is just who he is. I watched the show a few times and quit because it was boring and I didn't like the way Kate treated Jon. However badly Kate treated Jon is not an excuse for his behavior this past year.

Like many of you I was hoping he would come to his senses, but he just makes the situation worse. There is a difference between the promotions that Kate was/is doing and Jon's promotions. The promotions Jon has been in aren't exactly family friendly.

He hires a bartender as a babysitter, has numerous affairs, talks about his lost youth, moves to NYC, rumors of pot smoking, etc. If Kate was having an affair, it would have been discovered by now.

The Judges in the court cases have ruled in Kate's favor and they must have some justification for doing so. Kate pays the bills and takes care of the children. Yes she has nannies, but I bet she is very picky about who she has with her children.

Kate is not a nice person, but she is IMO the better parent compared to Jon.

my9cats said...

toeachhisown said

(snipped) But I think it's important to remember that the online community of "sheeple" is a very small cross section of Kate's actual fans. I would hate to see some of her more sane supporters (and yes I do believe she has some supporters who are perfectly normal, bright, friendly people) tarred with the same brush as some of her crazier and more fervent online supporters.
********************************
First of all, let's hope those crazier and fervent supporters stay "online." Real fanatics are people to be very wary of.
Ok, I think the Kate probably does have some relatively sane supporters, but to my recollection not one of them has made a valid case. Their arguments, while sounding reasonable, rely primarily on Kate's descriptions of herself as hardworking and organized etc.,etc. This is how she was actually presented early on which made that fairly easy to believe. Some couples use mild insults as a form of endearment. And she has 8 kids! No, I'm not being sarcastic. This is what caught my attention - how the hell does anyone cope? And the kids are adorable!
Speaking for myself, I often multitask with the tv on ( have very few favorite shows) so it took me longer than some others to start paying attention to what what many (myself included) now see as the "real" Kate. But there were things that seriously disturbed me when I saw them: gumgate, sick child on the floor, insults to Jon and the kids and more, so I started paying closer attention. The trips and events got to be over the top. I stopped watching when they promoted the vow renewal (at 9 years? dress from Kleinfeldt? Hawaii? oh puleeze). I'd still catch an occasional rerun and notice more and more disturbing things. (OK - I have to say this - I stopped watching the licentious channel the first time I saw a promo for the "big announcement" with that poor little girl crying inside a car saying "Daddy don't go" to Jon. That pushed me OVER THE EDGE).
So to give these sane supporters the benefit of the doubt - how much have they watched the actual show; were they paying attention; give specific, concrete examples of her work ethic, organizational skills, mothering, whatever makes them suppport her. But I agree, they should not be labeled as sheeple. So ok, "not a sheeple" make your case. Sheeple, by definition, do not have a case to make.

12/24/2009 3:14 PM
Blogger Pa Mom Knows said...

"Sheeple need to be shod."

Why would a sheeple need a shoe? LOL!! Merry Christmas!


Woops! LOL! Meant to say shorn. Good catch. Am loaded up on painkillers (sciatica) and spent whole Christmas holiday in bed.

pogo said...

Remember that the people who own and market theses shows, did extensive research on what sells and women's emotions. Yes this younger generations of women buy into all kinds of nonsense that is presented to them, from products that make you thin to drama they get from TV shows(the ones they watched as kids and beyond)and every other crap that is given. You know we still do the cinderella thing with our daughters, but in reality it does not work. A lot of our young people and those who run things try to re-write, thinking and laws etc to justify things they do. Kate is a shining example of what not to be. That comes from those of us that are older and some younger who see Kate for who she really is, not being blinded by what TLC and others are marketing to us. I can't stand Kate, she had a good husband, and she treated him like crap. I can understand Jon for doing what he did, I don't agree with it but I understand it.

sadie said...

Maybe you don't get it, that's fine. But why should it matter to anyone if someone does find Kate to be a good mom. So what. It's just another opinion which we are all entitled to.

fidosmommy said...

sadie said...
Maybe you don't get it, that's fine. But why should it matter to anyone if someone does find Kate to be a good mom. So what. It's just another opinion which we are all entitled to.

******

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, it's important that we be able to back up our opinions to give them some
authenticity.

So, could you please be the first to finally explain to me what
qualities Kate has exhibited to earn her the title of "good mom"?

I've already spoken to the "she loves her kids" fallback answer.
Even really bad parents "love their kids", so we'll put that on the list of assumptions. But it's just not good enough. So.....

How is Kate Gosselin a "good mom"?

CarlainCT said...

I can't stand Kate, she had a good husband, and she treated him like crap. I can understand Jon for doing what he did, I don't agree with it but I understand it.

Well I don't understand it AT ALL. Jon Gosselin is a grown man. Nobody makes him do anything. His decisions and actions are his own. I refuse to allow him to take the easy way out by saying Kate drove him to anything.

Lots of men marry and become fathers younger than they should have. Lots of men lose there 20s to obligations they would rather not have taken on. Lots of men spend a decade or more trapped in a toxic relationship. But they don't use those things as an excuse to behave like a punk in their 30's.

Kate and her specific brand of narcissism went looking for a weak-minded, no backbone man she could marry and then control the rest of her life. When she met Jon she must have thought she hit the jackpot. But she didn't make him lazy--he made himself that. And she didn't create his complete lack of ambition--he's always had that. She didn't give him poor judgment--that's all his. She didn't remove his backbone, or create the ego that believes he's somehow popular and relevant. She doesn't encourage him to spend all his time and energy trying to find a way to get paid for doing nothing instead of actually going out and getting a job. She exploited all of those things in him, no doubt, but she didn't create him.

I hate the victim mentality. My mother didn't hug me enough as a child so that's why I drink too much. My wife is cold so that's why I cheat. My husband won't give me money so that's why I steal. GROW UP. Take responsibility for yourself. No one makes you do anything you don't want to do.

Jon Gosselin is a pillow person. He always bears the impression of the last person he came in contact with. Put him next to Mark Warner and he wants to be a politician (God help us all), put him next to John Glenn and he'll want to be an astronaut. Or next to Derek Jeter and he'll want to be a baseball player.

Do his kids love him? Of course they do! But that doesn't make him a good parent. Or even a better one. If I, or heaven forbid my daughter, was married to and had children with a man who behaved the way he is behaving right now-you better believe I'd be concerned.

Jon & Kate are not a zero-sum game. Hatred for one of them should not lead to support of the other in the face of bad behavior. They're both losers.

chick said...

Sadie, it matters because if a woman is holding Kate's behavior and attitude up as her example of good mothering, she is at risk of harming her children physically, emotionally, and intellectually.

Based on what we have all seen on TV...

Good mothers have only as many children as they can financially support. Kate doesn't.

Good mothers help their children when they are ill. Kate doesn't.

Good mothers model appropriate behavior toward their SO and their children, so their children learn to treat others with care, respect and concern. Kate doesn't.

Good mothers know that they need down time, but they do not prefer down time to time spent with their children. Kate would rather be catered to at a spa than play with her children.

Good mothers acknowledge that parenting is hard, but they also know the tough times are worth it. Kate simply mocks, bitches and moans about her kids constantly.

Good mothers express love to their children without TV cameras to document it. Kate doesn't.

All in all, Kate is like a giant DON'T when it comes to mothering. If one looked at Kate's actions and did the exact opposite, one would be on a good path toward being a pretty darn terrific mother.

Midnight Serenade said...

"aybe you don't get it, that's fine. But why should it matter to anyone if someone does find Kate to be a good mom. So what. It's just another opinion which we are all entitled to."

Here's why it does matter. People are entitled to their opinions, and if one wants to believe that she is the best mom on this planet, or in the entire solar system, so be it. The danger comes when those who think she's a fabulous mother try to emulate her, look to her as a role model, and try to pattern their lives after what she has created, all in the name of putting the children first and foremost in her life.

pressured cooker said...

CarlainCT said...
Jon & Kate are not a zero-sum game. Hatred for one of them should not lead to support of the other in the face of bad behavior. They're both losers.
----------------------------------
well written, thoughtful post

*standing ovation*

jibberjabbers said...

CarlainCT said...

==========

First of all what did Jon do exactly?

Cheat on Kate? Nope. Kate left him on October 2008.

And yes, Jon is the better parent. We saw it from Episode 1 thru 4. It was Jon who got up early to feed and dress the kids while Kate slept it. Only to walk in and yell at Jon for no reason while she was half asleep.

It was Jon who spent quality time with the kids. Played with them, etc etc. While Kate stood on the sideline and watched or yelled.

It was Jon who stayed home to watch the kids while Kate was out and about for 2 years.

This is why the kids are more attached to Jon than they are to Kate.

It was Jon who stopped the filming of the show when it should have been canceled when Kate filed for a divorce.

Put all those little things Jon did, and that would make him a better parent than Kate.

What did Kate do exactly? Nothing. She just yelled and yelled some more. The only thing she did was "demand" the kids go out in matching outfits.

She had nannies, babysitters and chefs to do the things she didn't do. Which is pretty much everything.

LisaNH said...

Sadly, the media will never recognize the efforts that Jon put forth for his kids. The media is skewed media in this country tends to side with Kate in all this madness. Funny how they didn't focus on her bad behavior that was in front of their eyes (i.e. every episode of the show). No, the main stream media sees Kate as the innocent victim in all this and Jon a buffoon. So be it. Hopefully one of these days the media will turn on Kate and realize that she is the one who caused all the problems that they now blame on Jon.

CarlainCT said...

First of all what did Jon do
exactly? Cheat on Kate? Nope. Kate left him on October 2008.


I didn't mention cheating because I don't think that has any bearing on whether Jon is a good parent or not.It isn't that he slept with other women while still technically married that makes him look ridiculous--it's the caliber of women he chooses to "date". He's acting like a frat boy on spring break when he is, in fact, a 32 year old father of 8. I couldn't care less where his 20's went--they're gone. Stop trying to re-live them.

Everyone always frets about the kids' classmates teasing them about pictures of a scantily clad Kate in the tabloids--what about pictures of a drunk Jon draped all over some 22 year old?

And yes, Jon is the better parent. We saw it from Episode 1 thru 4. It was Jon who got up early to feed and dress the kids while Kate slept it. It was Jon who spent quality time with the kids. Played with them, etc etc.

No disrespect intended, but do you really think that's all it takes to be a good parent? Feed them, dress them and play with them? Because to me that's the absolute minimum a good parent does. If we're lowering the bar that far just so that one of these two losers can clear it, those kids are completely screwed.

What about instilling the value of a good education in them--Jon can't do that because he has no respect for the value of it himself. No luck with a love of learning for learnings sake either--he's one of the least intellectually curious people I've ever seen. What about teaching them to think for themselves? Never gonna happen because he doesn't know how and has shown no desire to learn himself. Teach them to make good judgments about people? Don't make me laugh. Teach them the value of hard work? Not even close.

Daddy is more likely to teach them--if it feels good, do it!! Go ahead and jump in a limo with people you don't even know, it might turn out good!! Skate through life without having a full time job as long as you possibly can!! Sponge off anyone willing to pay you to show up at a party!!

It was Jon who stayed home to watch the kids while Kate was out and about for 2 years.

As I said, Jon is lazy. I find it hard to believe he begged to be able to go out and get a job. When someone has no inclination to work "forcing" them to stay home isn't a punishment.

This is why the kids are more attached to Jon than they are to Kate.

True but that still doesn't make him a good father.

It was Jon who stopped the filming of the show when it should have been canceled when Kate filed for a divorce.

I'm not yet willing to put this one in Jon's column. I'm waiting to see how it all plays out. If he stands his ground I'll tip my hat and give him credit. But if he "reaches an agreement" with TLC that allows the filming to continue while quietly lining his pockets with more money--well as the old joke goes 'we know what you are we're just haggling over the price'. And if he does relent and allow filming to resume it'll be because he agreed for his own reasons. Not that he was forced into by Kate or TLC or anyone else. Standing up for his children in this case is something he and only he can do--and no amount of pressure should make him back down. Let TLC win a big judgment against him--so what? You can't get blood out of a turnip. He can declare bankruptcy and move on by--gasp--getting a real job. And I don't buy the "child support to pay" argument either. If he gets a real job and has a lower income his child support will be adjusted by the court. It happens every day.

Put all those little things Jon did, and that would make him a better parent than Kate.

I don't
disagree.What I said is that Kate is an atrocious parent. Jon is marginally better. But there's a BIG difference between being a marginally better than atrocious parent and being a good parent.

kgirl0321 said...

@ chick said...
Excellent post! A very nice way of stating why Kate is not an example of a good mother.

Hard to Keep Loving Jon said...

CarlainCT said it all!
Great post -- hits the nail on the head.
Thanks.

the Big Wooden Spoon said...

Not Watching TLC said...
Be very afraid of the people that Khate appeals too. *snipped*
Khate validates the way they live their life and that is indeed... scary.

******
I wonder if we shouldn't also feel sorry for the sheeple. What if they have always been treated the way Kate Gosselin treats people? What if they dont' know any other way of living? Maybe all they can see is the polished exterior and fancy possessions. Maybe she is just like their mothers, only rich.

Just a thought -

Kapaccino said...

WAIT, those dummies from Paula Deen's cooking pilot just NOW figured out this maniac was controversial???
Maybe Paula wanted to make a fruitcake and Khate got offended - ya know, there can only be ONE fruitcake in the room.
I truly believe that the sheeples/dorks are nothing but wanna-be's who live vicariously through Khate Gosselin. They want to emulate her CAN-DO attitude (just like the cooking show...) and her tight little tummy with the misplaced belly-button, and her sasquatch gait. These sheeples/dorks have no lives so they create one through Khate.

uneasy said...

The danger with the Kate worship is not so much for Kate and her worshipers but for the kids. Kate's only claim to fame is having 8 kids, 6 of which were born at the same time. Her exploitation of these children by having them filmed for the public at large in intimate and private moments is not something that we in society want to be emulated or respected. It is criminal. If people want to idolize Kate for such things as her hair style, her fashion sense (?) and her attitude towards adult men, that is questionable, but legitimate. But exploiting her own children - no!

jibberjabbers said...

CarlainCT said...

------

It's easy to pick the mistakes of Jon and Kate.

I mentioned some of the qualities and some of the things Jon did that made him a better parent over Kate.

Can you mention ONE thing that makes Kate a better parent?

No you can't... Out of the 2 idiots. Jon is the better parent.

The only thing that matters is that he truly love his kid. You can even see his face light up when he was talking about Mady and Cara's birthday..

Kate hasn't shown anything that leads me to believe she cares for the kids. Fabricating stories about the kids crying over the TV crew? Denying Mady water? Forcing her kids to do TV interviews then grabbing and pinching Alexis on National TV.

Every time the kids surround her, she screams at them to give her some space. Heck, she won't even allow them to roll on the grass...

So yes, between the 2, Jon is the better parent. He was there doing all the dirty work, and spending qualities time with them while Kate just stood and watched from the sideline.

jibberjabbers said...

Jon's face lights us as he talks about spending time with Mady and Cara.

You don't get the same feeling or connection to the kids with Kate.

alana said...

pogo said,

"You know we still do the cinderella thing with our daughters, but in reality it does not work."

Whoa there! No "we" don't.

Imo,as wild and crazy as the 1960s were, any person, especially women, who reached the age of reason during that time understood how damaging the "Cinderella complex" could be to the daughters "we" might have in the future. I think the majority of women today, who raised daughters during the last 30 years, are keenly aware of the importance of modeling autonomy, independence and confidence. Waiting for Prince Charming to deliver security and happiness to us never works; we learn to earn it for ourselves, first. Only then will we be successful in forming healthy, lasting relationships. This goes for the boys/men, too.

Unfortunately, today there may still be a few women, like Take, who continue to believe in fairy tales; they're stuck in an unhappy world of make-believe and illlusion. Eventually, they realize that "happily ever after" isn't going to happen. They become users and abusers; they seek self- validation at the neighborhood spa and drink too much, alone, at night. Their friendships are based on manipulation and usery, and their romantic relationships never work out, falling apart due to unmet and unrealistic expectations. They keep looking for that "quick fix," that magic fairy tale that will bring them all they dream of, and deserve! Their unhappiness is ultimately transferred to their children, just like we see with Hate's children.
The Cinderella legacy gets passed down to another dysfunctional generation.

No way will I, my two daughters, OR my three sons ever EVER perpetuate "the cinderlella thing."

lifeoriley said...

The adjective "lazy" when it comes to Jon's role as a parent bugs me. Maybe I just stick up for the underdog--Jon's has been trashed so much in the media and on the internet that it seems like some people are sadistically enjoying kicking a man when he's down. I prefer the term "doofus."
Jon may not be the smartest or most ambitious person, but he did more of the physical, manual labor in parenting the children than Kate.Kate was more like the "General" and Jon was more like the "infantry" in parenting. Now, would one necessarily call the soldiers in an army "lazy" because they were conscripted and are not making the battle plans? Or the administrative and support staff of an organization "lazy" because they are not the ones giving the orders and directives, but carrying them out?
That's why the term "lazy" bothers me. Also, Jon obviously is not most intellectual person--but perhaps he cannot help it? Not everyone is "college material."

Now, I agreee, Jon should try to find a real job--anything at this point that does not involve making a complete fool of himself. He needs to rebuild his life and get some dignity and self-respect.

And, as for the assertion that if Kate was having an affair, it would have been exposed by now--not necessarily so. Look at Tiger Woods. He got away with it for years.

Skeet said...

Thank you CarlainCT - wonderful post! Jon is just a big kid. Kate is not an ideal mother (understatement), but IMO she would be the better parent than Jon. For the reasons you stated.

The problem with this reality show was none of it was actually real.

dustilies said...

jibber jabbers said

Every time the kids surround her, she screams at them to give her some space.

----
Excellent point--goes straight to the heart of the matter. She is always complaining about a "sea" (her word) of children around her.

The only time I remember her expressing pleasure at being physically close to them was in the camping episode (at the Big House). She said something about being happy to be surrounded by all her babies. But she was sleeping alone on her own air mattress.

Everyone needs personal space and alone time. But a good mother doesn't need those things ALL the time; what she needs (for herself as well as for them) is to hug and snuggle her kidlets every day, to feel them laugh and wriggle at a silly joke, to smell their hair.

And another point--all mothers make mistakes. Little mistakes, and big mistakes. But good mothers recognize their mistakes, apologize to their kids for them, and repair any damage they've done. I can't remember Kate or Jon offering a sincere apology to the kids for anything--please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kate fell in love with the idea of multiples, but her idea of motherhood and her actual talent for it are totally mismatched.

KateBGone said...

Looks like getting hit in the head with a ham knocked some sense into Paula Deen! Whoever pulled the plug on Katie Irene deserves a standing ovation! How does this obnoxious woman continue to push her lack of talent, irritating personality, etc. and have people buy into her "potential"????

We all saw vestiges of her personality traits on the TLC show and her constant emasculation of Jon. Say what you will about him, he spent more quality time with those children during their early years and truly is the better parent. He deserves a medal for the 10 years spent with that shrew.

Katie Irene's penchant for meltdowns (think plane trip to Utah, ice cream at Disney World, sand storm on the FL beach, etc.), her tendency to UMMM and UHHH, and her rumoured DIVA behavior will be the downfall of her "promising" career!!! LMAO LOL!!

CarlainCT said...

Kate was more like the "General" and Jon was more like the "infantry" in parenting. Now, would one necessarily call the soldiers in an army "lazy" because they were conscripted and are not making the battle plans? Or the administrative and support staff of an organization "lazy" because they are not the ones giving the orders and directives, but carrying them out?

No, for the following reason. Being an infantry person or a support staff worker is a job. By definition in a work environment there are those who give the orders and those who carry them out. That's the way it is. Home life is different than work life.Kate ran roughshod over Jon and played the role of "General" for one reason. Because he let her. He could have stood up for himself at any point.

Jon is lazy because he chooses to go through life letting other people chart his path and dictate his every move. He chooses to let others think for him rather than thinking for himself. He's happy to abdicate the responsibility for life's decisions to anyone willing to take on the task and tell him what to do next.

I say "chooses" because I believe that far from being happy to be out from under Kate's thumb he is still clinging desperately to anyone willing to run his life for him.

Also, Jon obviously is not most intellectual person--but perhaps he cannot help it? Not everyone is "college material."

True, but I don't think a person needs to be college material to understand the importance of education and to want to instill that in their children.

sadie said...

...So, could you please be the first to finally explain to me what
qualities Kate has exhibited to earn her the title of "good mom"?

How is Kate Gosselin a "good mom"?...

I'm not saying that I think Kate is a good mom. I am just saying that if someone wants to think she is, then so what. That person who thinks Kate is a good mom has just as much right to think so as someone who thinks Kates is a lousy mom. It's all a bunch of opinions. No one is right or wrong.

Jane in California said...

sadie said...

I'm not saying that I think Kate is a good mom. I am just saying that if someone wants to think she is, then so what. That person who thinks Kate is a good mom has just as much right to think so as someone who thinks Kates is a lousy mom. It's all a bunch of opinions. No one is right or wrong.
* * *

I agree that everyone has a right to their own opinion. However, I can't agree that no one is right or wrong. Kate is clearly a very poor parent. I would go so far to say she is actually a hurtful, mean-hearted, cold-hearted, sometimes downright awful parent.

To think she is a good parent is wrong. I'm sorry, but that's all there is to it. There are numerous examples of her truly awful behavior all captured on film. I don't need to do anything more than point to any of the various cruel and uncaring behaviors she has exhibited, especially toward her sons. Kate is a bad, truly terrible mother. There is no way around it. No girl or woman should aspire to be like Kate.

If anyone reading this identifies with Kate, and currently is childless - please stay that way. I'm not being snarky - I'm completely serious.

Mystical said...

Jane in California said, ...."If anyone reading this identifies with Kate, and currently is childless - please stay that way. I'm not being snarky - I'm completely serious."
___________________________________
Thanks for stating the obvious Jane, because it is glaringly so. Kate is horrific as a mother. Shame on her for all of her nasty narcisstically selfish cold-hearted actions towards them. Kate only thinks of herself...and that's a fact. I wonder if those who admire & support her wretched ways are just like her.

Kapaccino said...

The way she holds her kid's arms way up in the air when she's walking/herding them makes me want to slap this witch...
This woman shouldn't have had even ONE child, let alone eight. She's not capable of loving ANYONE - that's just the way she was hard-wired at birth, imo. It's hard to imagine but there ARE mothers out there in the world such as Khate.
Say what you want about Jon but at least he genuinely loves those kids

CityGirl said...

I didn't mean to characterize the "Kate Followers" in an earlier post so I went and double checked. I was correct. If anyone wants to see this for sure, Just go over to the so sugary site in the "Speaking engagement, promotional events and take a look at the crowds that Kate speaks to. Some in wheel chairs who are elderly, some in wheel chairs who are not, some young women 20-25? pushing strollers, sporting the Kate hair. Stripes and all. Gray haired men with cameras raised above their heads snapping away. Gray haired women, "Slouchy" looking 40ish women with the beginnings of the cut. There was one lady who stood up saying "Hi Kate, remember me?"
Kate looked at her like she just became sick in her mouth. The lady says "I'm the one who sends you the emails", giving only her first name, She was positive that Kate had received every last one and read them all. Then Kate pretends to remember and give a crap. The lady says "You are doing a great job, continue to take the high road" and " We couldn't wait to finally see you in person" the lady looked 60- ish ?

I firmly believe kates supporters will never change their opinion of her. They will stick with her through all, and will never fade away. She has enough of these type people to follow her and give her the crowds and ratings she would need if she were to start up with another TLC show or anything. However, she has lost a great deal of the "old" supporters who see right through her. She will not get that audience back. I dont think the followers really know what is going on. I think they only believe what they see, and do not understand how she really is.
They can't see past the cute kids, and the "glittery star" who will sign their books.

Brummygirl said...

dustilies said:
Everyone needs personal space and alone time. But a good mother doesn't need those things ALL the time; what she needs (for herself as well as for them) is to hug and snuggle her kidlets every day, to feel them laugh and wriggle at a silly joke, to smell their hair.
**************************
That was beautiful dustilies. How I miss those days although I lived it again with my grandchildren. I never wanted my girls to grow up too quickly, time is a thief of moments like that, in a blink the years are gone.
How much Kate will have missed when her children have children and do not want to come around. Why would they when I can just imagine Kate as a crabby old grandma!!

Not Watching TLC said...

The Big Wooden Spoon said...
I wonder if we shouldn't also feel sorry for the sheeple. What if they have always been treated the way Kate Gosselin treats people? What if they dont' know any other way of living?
****

Reality is how was she raised? Not too bad it sounds like - a comfortable middle class with access to education.

Did any of her siblings seek out a tv reality show, abuse their kids and husband on national television, and then kick their spouse out? Nope. Any of them sell their kids' lives down the river (trust me these kids are royally screwed and if ever back on television as teens and adults will be on shows like Intervention, Hoarders, and Top 10 Stupid Criminals).

Khate produced Khate and I have no sympathy for her. As a commercial product being produced by TLC, I also have no money or endorsement of her or her "branded" name.

fidosmommy said...

Not watching TLC, I don't think Kate's upbringing is what Big Wooden Spoon was talking about. It was the upbringing of the sheeple. The question was is it possible that these people were raised around self-serving parents who did not put their children first, therefore feel quite at home with Kate?

You are right, Kate had a very decent upbringing from all appearances. What we don't have is a mental health report from her earlier years. She might have started her demanding ways when she was quite young, and thought it was quite cute and appealing.

Not Watching TLC said...

fidosmommy...

Ah I see. Hm well there are stupid people everywhere and while I may pity them, I don't need to hang with them, associate with them or form friendships with them.

Criminal data shows that who you associate with affects your well being. I generally try to up my quality of life.

Rebecca said...

"So I say mock on and keep up your hysterically funny posts, but at the same time maybe try to keep in mind that not all Kate supporters are terrible people. As they say--reasonable minds can disagree."

Agreed. I have two friends who used to enjoy J&K very much. They both said that they enjoyed watching the kids and see a lot of themselves in her. One of my friends is now really anti-Kate, because she started looking into the 'stuff behind the show'. I think the other is still a fan, but I don't get to see her often so I'm not sure.

Neither one of these young, married women act at all like Kate. They don't treat their hubs the same way she treated Jon (neither have kids, but I guarantee that they won't treat their kids the way she treats her). They both said, separately, that they thought it was impressive that she could handle that many kids, and felt that her "frustration" was something that they could empathize with.

I don't understand it, but that doesn't stop them from being intelligent, educated women.

Nancy said...

You know, as odd as it may seem my husband finds Kate very attractive and her personality doesn't bother him that much - he thinks she's probably controlling and was married to a loser and had all these kids and became more controlling as a result. Same with my brother. I think men (just like women I guess) are all attracted to different types and there's just no predicting. I'm sure she'll find someone who likes her fine and does see some good traits.

Pa Mom Knows said...

"So I say mock on and keep up your hysterically funny posts, but at the same time maybe try to keep in mind that not all Kate supporters are terrible people. As they say--reasonable minds can disagree."

***************

I'm wondering how many of these intelligent, reasonable women would continue to be supporters if they really knew her

Midnight Serenade said...

"You know, as odd as it may seem my husband finds Kate very attractive and her personality doesn't bother him that much -"

**************

Did you show him the photo of her at the bus stop, sans makeup -- with the Rudolph nose?

The Big Wooden Spoon said...

Not Watching TLC said...
The Big Wooden Spoon said...
I wonder if we shouldn't also feel sorry for the sheeple. What if they have always been treated the way Kate Gosselin treats people? What if they dont' know any other way of living?
****

Reality is how was she raised? *snipped*
Khate produced Khate and I have no sympathy for her.
*******

I think you misunderstood me! I was NOT defending anything about Kate's behavior, parenting skills, or manners. She is a sick and despicable human (?) being. What I meant was that maybe the sheeple don't know anything better, and thus do not recognize her nastiness for what it is.

Somebody's Nana said...

This thread has been fascinating to read. I think it's the first one I've ever seen where people have even tried to understand those who continue to have a positive view of Kate.

For all the reasons stated by Ohio Buckeye, NE Psychologist, Jane in California, Sugar's Sister, and others, I would add: I think that many people see Kate as competent and strong, something they would like to be. They may even interpret her behavior as feminism (not) while still maintaining the aura of perfect mother. The imperfections that others bring up can be explained away by lots of things, and the inability to view her accurately is partly due to the fact that her supporters would have to admit they were wrong about her and themselves.

I've always thought that there was a great deal of justifying going on for both Kate and Jon supporters. For me, the initial attraction was the children who ARE cute, and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Wow. From the very beginning, I cringed when EITHER of the parents talked.

There is nothing Kate is doing that can justify Jon's behavior, or vice versa. Both are immature, self-centered and unable to empathize with any other view than their own, and that's without even considering any clinical diagnoses! Jon's subsequent behavior did not surprise me in the least - it merely bore out my first impression. Kate continued to be Kate. Her only advantage is that she is smart enough to listen to advice from handlers.

The kids are the losers in all of this. Sadly, nothing meets the level required for intervention.