Nov 21, Tabloids, Antics, Appearances, and other Diversions

The saga continues and continues and continues.

59 comments:

gherkin said...

So, there are pics out of Kate taking two of the girls to Starbucks for big drinks and then Kate and the nanny and the little kids all going to Dunkin Donuts. Is all of that organic food? And doesn't this count as fast food?

Tami said...

She does not have them eating anything organic anymore. Were the french fries and mac & cheese in that last episode organic? Why does she feed them starbucks all the time? It's like a several times a day thing. If she is getting fattening drinks for herself every day, it's going to catch up with her!

Nik said...

W00t, season finale finally! Hopefully they won't renew for another season.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2009/11/20/2009-11-20_series_finale_for_jon__kate_plus_8_set_to_air_nov_23_on_tlc.html

MBach said...

On Showbiz Tonight the teaser was "Jon's girlfriend compares him to a serial killer"

Turns out Hailey had tweeted that she had almost finished reading a book about liars. Then in another tweet said Jon was like Dexter. So, of course, Showbiz called Jon the serial killer of TLC.

I do not watch Dexter. So I don't know what she meant by that comparison.

There was also coverage on Thursday night of how Jon is wanting 5 million from TLC for ruinning his career. There were the expected comments following that. "What career?" being one.

Jon really messed up. If he had just played it cool after the Deanna pictures, he would have been the picture boy for abused husbands. Instead he ran around like a dog, acted like the party dude, and now is the BAD husband in the eye of public opinion.

Just like some GWOP comments (my own included) say Jon is the lesser of two evils, when it comes to parenting the kids; so a little positive on Jon's tally. The general public has been told (yes, the truth) that Jon is crazy for the women, has no prospects, and is the picture boy for losers.

PR- that's public relations - is a pretty tough game to play. Who in their right mind would want to be famous?

DLCF said...

gherkin said...
So, there are pics out of Kate taking two of the girls to Starbucks for big drinks and then Kate and the nanny and the little kids all going to Dunkin Donuts. Is all of that organic food? And doesn't this count as fast food?
_______________________________

No, it's a rare treat according to the English-to-Kate dictionary.

And it makes me want donuts. You want some donuts?

MomOf4InPA said...

I had to laugh when I saw this picture. She walked in all Queenie Irenie like with her Dunkins coffee cup in hand to get her girls Starbucks. Talk about a gutsy move. I think of it as akin to walking into Taco Bell with your MickeyD's take out bag in hand. Just not something I would ever do, then again I'm not Kate.

I was disturbed to see the non-Hannah tup's (I can't tell who is who unless I see them together--Leah maybe?) arm yanked up in the air above her head, looking not so comfortable. Hannah holds onto her pocket because that stupid coffee cup is super-glued to her hand. She can't even leave her coffee in the car for 5 minutes while she goes into a different coffee place to get the girls a "sugary treat". On the way out, Hannah hold the hand at at normal height and they leave the other one (Leah?) trying to catch up from behind, trying to hold mommy's hand also. Her face is so sad in that picture, it just makes you want to cry.

And 2 purses. I guess she stopped at FedEx too for "its all for the kids" business of destroying Jon.

*sigh* I don't feel good thanks to H1N1, and as much as I want the show to be over and gone, I can't help but think that its not, and that those poor kids are going to be exploited yet again. :(

Pa Mom Knows said...

"*sigh* I don't feel good thanks to H1N1,"
-----------------------------

Aw, same here. I think it's making its way around PA! Feel better!

MomOf4InPA said...

Thanks PA Mom! Stupid H1N1 gave me pneumonia and I threw out my back yesterday so Im kinda miserable atm, and it makes me less tolerant of Kate and her "falseishness".

Just saw the pics on ROL of her going to her lawyers office. I guess she needs a new blender, coz the back of her head doesnt look all spikey and chopped like she ran it thru a blender. Could this be the new hair style she was talking about getting? Looking more like the "oldish seasonish-wise" Kate?

John apparently brought roses. If I wake up tomorrow to find out "roses Jon" is the old Jon, I think I just might have to add projectile vomiting to my list of aliments.

Someone please make it stop. My head is gonna explode. :(

Joplin said...

MBach said...

On Showbiz Tonight the teaser was "Jon's girlfriend compares him to a serial killer"

Turns out Hailey had tweeted that she had almost finished reading a book about liars. Then in another tweet said Jon was like Dexter. So, of course, Showbiz called Jon the serial killer of TLC.

I do not watch Dexter. So I don't know what she meant by that comparison.
_______________________________

I do watch Dexter and trust me: Dexter may be a serial killer, but he's still a better parent than these two.

Jane in California said...

Those photo captions on ROL are incorrect. They keep saying "Kate and the twins," when it is two of the tup girls with Kate. What idiots.

organizedblogroll said...

Hey Gherkin, obviously she's using up the gift cards these goops gave her. When the trips to Starbucks stop, we'll know SHE RAN OUT.

Brummygirl said...

Just checked out the court photos on ROL re the arbitration. Jon came out smiling, Kate was serious. I wonder what that tells us?
Kate's hair was flat to her head, obviously trying to make an impression.
I cannot believe that Jon took red roses for Kate. Perhaps he believes in the fairy tale about the *Princess* pricking her finger and going to sleep for one hundred years!! We can but hope!!!
The comments on ROL from the Sheeple are outrageous. I do not usually read them, but they are advocating for Jon not having visiting rights at the home and also Kate having full custody.
Oh my...this makes my head hurt!!!

Can't See Sheep said...

Pa Mom Knows
MomOf4InPA

Feel better guys!

torgoman said...

Jon really messed up. If he had just played it cool after the Deanna pictures, he would have been the picture boy for abused husbands. Instead he ran around like a dog, acted like the party dude, and now is the BAD husband in the eye of public opinion.


So it's better to be seen as a punching bag than a douche bag?

Since I question the reality of reality television and the journalism of tabloid journalism, I've never really bought into the whole "Jon is a party boy/poon hound" spin. Sometimes people drink not because they're out to have fun but they're lost or feeling miserable and depressed.

What I've seen this past year is a person under the public eye with a history of passivity coming out of an abusive relationship and attempting to put the pieces of their life together. It's complicated and messy and frustrating; but it's real life. Not pretty, but real.

And the bad behavior did help drive down the ratings, which lead to the show's eventual cancellation. That is more important than winning a popularity contest.

And Hailey? What an immature twit.(Or, in this case, Twittering twit).

Tami said...

I wonder if Hate having primary custody means Jon can't use the house for visits anymore while she leaves? That would just be wrong. I wonder if there was some agreement that she owns the house.

If she really brought Dunkin Donuts coffee from her car into Starbucks you know she is just being paid to promote DD or something, maybe they offered her a commercial. She goes from drinking Starbuck all the time to blatantly switching? The kids probably said they still want their Starbucks. It's all so stupid. So many people are broke these days and she just has to get her coffee drinks out EVERY single day.

ManicNarcissism said...

MomOf4InPA said...

I had to laugh when I saw this picture. She walked in all Queenie Irenie like with her Dunkins coffee cup in hand to get her girls Starbucks. Talk about a gutsy move. I think of it as akin to walking into Taco Bell with your MickeyD's take out bag in hand. Just not something I would ever do, then again I'm not Kate.

<><><><><><

I don't see the big deal about this. How is it gutsy to walk into a place with something if you are also buying something there. It's not like your bringing your DD coffee and donuts and going in to Starbucks just to sit and enjoy their ambiance and WIFI but enjoy a superiour coffee (which DD is) and a reasonable donut instead of an overpriced bakery item that is never worth the money or calories. That, maybe I could see being gutsy. But, just walking in with food from somewhere else and still buying there food as well? I don't see the big deal since both are a fast food environment. I used to go through the Wendy's drive through and take it in to Taco Bell so me and dad could eat taco's even though our daughter didn't like them. Maybe I'm gutsy and just didn't know it. That's okay, just call me Queenie MN!

konhasyoufooled said...

Pa Mom Knows
MomOf4InPA
*************

I hope you guys feel better fast. Did you have the H1N1 vaccine? Wishes for a speedy recovery!

Dunwoody Mom said...

Jon really messed up. If he had just played it cool after the Deanna pictures, he would have been the picture boy for abused husbands. Instead he ran around like a dog, acted like the party dude, and now is the BAD husband in the eye of public opinion.

Actually, that is how TLC/ROL portrayed Jon. Everyone needs to quit forming their opinion on Jon based on tabloid media - they were paid by TLC to put the worst possible light on Jon in order to get Jon to cave and let the kids be filmed again.

MomIAm said...

One lesson we can all take away is for people to not act like Kate Gosselin. Do not disrespect spouses or other family members. The message is even broader. When someone gives you something, show appreciation. Be kind to them. Thank them.

When people are snippy with each other on message boards maybe a hint that they are pulling a Kate Gosselin, will make them more aware of bad behavior. It should be a standard caution.

I'm going to talk about it with my family members over the holidays and remind them how people should treat each other using actual examples from the show on how not to behave.

For the Moment? said...

Re: Kate and Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks.

If she gets her coffee at Dunkin now, what does Starbucks have that her kids would want? We don't have one near where I live so wouldn't know. We just have a Dunkin and it is great. Maybe Dunkins gave her a better deal and she just wanted to rub it in to Starbucks. The two are very competitive. She is definitely the get even type.

As an aside I know someone who used to work for Pepsi and someone brought a Coke to a family dinner and he about died. He didn't want the product in his house.

outwest said...

Starbucks sells flavored milkshakes that my kids love.

gherkin said...

Regarding Kate and the Dunkin Donuts coffee---remember when Rachel Ray was in all of the ads for Dunkin coffee? Does she still do that? Anyway, maybe Kate is hoping she will be their next spokesperson. LOL. I wouldn't put anything past her.

In fact, she probably wants to emulate Rachel. The possible talk show with Paula Deen, the supposed organic restaurant show that is in the works with TLC (Rachel has her show on the Food Network where she tours different cities and restaurants). She can be just like Rachel!!

Back to the coffee---I honestly can't see Kate ever paying for anything. I wonder if she has a deal with these places where if she is shown carrying their cups---all of their drinks are free for her and her kids? Who knows.

kim said...

I, like Kate, live in PA. All of the Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts in my area have drive-thrus. While I think it's great that she is finally allowing the children special treats, I find it hilarious that she needs to feed her ego (and in the process traumatize the poor kids) by getting out of the car to be sure she is photographed by the paparazzi. And I firmly believe the reason she is carrying the Dunkin Donuts cup is to make the paparazzi aware that she can be stalked there as well as Starbucks.

For the Moment? said...

No wonder Kate can't sleep at night. How much coffee can one person possibly drink? I drink a cup of coffee in the car and have to stop somewhere along the way, well never mind, too much info...LOL. You rarely see her without that cup, I am sure she is getting it for free..if not a kick back...if she wasn't she would put it in a coolie. She's like that.

1momski said...

So Kate has primary custody? Not good, those are not children to Kate, they are dollar signs.I worry they will be back filming soon.
Also, Jon and Heller looked all "happyish" when leaving the courthouse while Kate looked positively "maddish". I thought that Jon had one a round. I know that a confidentiality agreement was signed but if it is true Kate has custody,what could Jon have ended up with that made him smile?

Jane in California said...

1momski said...

Also, Jon and Heller looked all "happyish" when leaving the courthouse while Kate looked positively "maddish". I thought that Jon had one a round. I know that a confidentiality agreement was signed but if it is true Kate has custody,what could Jon have ended up with that made him smile?
* * *

In other threads, posters have given their interpretation of what it means to have primary custody. It's not as bad as it sounds. I believe it just means that the kids will remain living in the residence, and that Kate will live there as well, and Jon will find a new place to live. He'll still have an equal say in the decisions that affect the children's upbringing.

It appears they reached an agreement on how to split the joint assets, and Jon was probably smiling because he will soon be legally free of Kate with some money in his bank account that will be his own, and she can't question him on how he spends it anymore.

I have no idea how the house issue got resolved. Did he agree to sign it over to Kate's name, or will it still be considered equally owned by each, with each to pay 50% of the maintenance and taxes, etc.? Normally, for one spouse to get the home, they have to be able to buy out the other spouse's half interest.

I think Kate would be unhappy with any split of the assets that didn't give her 95% and Jon the remaining 5%.

Pamela Jaye said...

I'm going to talk about it with my family members over the holidays and remind them how people should treat each other using actual examples from the show on how not to behave.

See? and we thought it wasn't The *Learning* Channel anymore


Actually, since they apparently have a show called what Not to wear, they could recycle Gosselin clips as How *Not* to Behave.

Aunty Anne said...

gherkin said...
So, there are pics out of Kate taking two of the girls to Starbucks for big drinks and then Kate and the nanny and the little kids all going to Dunkin Donuts. Is all of that organic food? And doesn't this count as fast food?

11/20/2009 9:16 PM
-----------------------------

Well, since TLC is no longer pushing them to look like they are organic, they can enjoy what they want to where ever they are. Bye Bye TLC and organic ...

brennie said...

"I thought that Jon had won a round. I know that a confidentiality agreement was signed but if it is true Kate has custody,what could Jon have ended up with that made him smile?"

I think Jon managed to delay the divorce becoming final which continues to give him access to Kate's income. Unfortunately, she and the kids will end up paying part of what he loses in court as well as the attorney fees

Maude said...

With all the appearances Kate makes around town don't we have one poster who works, or has worked, at Target, Starbucks, DD, Kinkos, etc.

I'd love to know how she pays...

She's...um...RUINED said...

So Kate has primary custody? Not good, those are not children to Kate, they are dollar signs.I worry they will be back filming soon.
Also, Jon and Heller looked all "happyish" when leaving the courthouse while Kate looked positively "maddish". I thought that Jon had one a round. I know that a confidentiality agreement was signed but if it is true Kate has custody,what could Jon have ended up with that made him smile?

11/22/2009 7:33 PM
_____________

It is almost impossible for a mother to not get primary custody, if she wants it (she would have to be literally beating the kids, etc, and Jon doesn't want primary anyway, so I am sure it wasn't even an issue.)
Nah, primary just means she lives in the home with the kids. He gets amply visitation, either using standard visitation according to PA law, or something they can work out together, also not a big deal.

I am sure Jon was happy that he got what he wanted! I am sure his legal document concerning the kids' family has held up in court ( THAT is why Kate was pissed!), and he will get the financial settlement that he deserves.
Kate will have to compensate him for his half of the house so she can place it in her name, or they both will agree to place it in a trust for the kids, who knows about the house. He was probably awarded the other house,and might get the proceeds from that, who knows.
He still has every legal right as a parent, 50% just like Kate does. He has equal say in where they live, go to school, etc. He also shares 50% in their care, medical, dental, etc.
Jon got what he wanted, money-wise and keeping the kids off tv.
Kate didnt get what she wanted...the kids back on tv. Now she has a hard row to hoe...she has to figure out how to maintain the lifestyle SHE wants to have. I know plenty oh families with lots of kids (I have 6) that make it just fine on a normal salary. She doesn't want that, and yes Kate, you can 'go back', if you wanted to. You just don't want to.

If she gets a new show, and she might, the people that will watch are the ones that love her or hate her. They have alredy lost the 'faith' audience, and when the new show starts, she will lose the audience that watched for the kids.
I wonder if she can even mention the kids' names on her new show....I bet not, if Jon got his way.
She will get a show, but I don't think she will be able to sustain a show. And I think deep down, she knows it. It might take a while for karma to come around, but it always does, sooner or later.

Swissmiss said...

Why does Kate continually visit the UPS/Fed Ex store? Are people still sending her freebies? Whatever for???

Why isn't the stuff delivered to her house? Or if she is mailing stuff out, won't they come to her house?

Oh, wait, I don't think Starbucks/Dunkin Donuts will deliver to her house?

Charles said...

Jon and Kate Gosselin's divorce is almost final after a contentious, but generally productive all-day mediation hearing Saturday at the arbitration table.


http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/11/jon-and-kate-the-divorce-countdown-begins/

Button Button said...

On message boards all over the net, people said that she was a brat. They also called her stupid, annoying, a jerk, useless, and worst of all, the B word, something someone should never call a child. I can tell you that if I heard, or even read, those sorts of things about my child, I'd be spitting fire. I'd be absolutely furious!

What hath TLC and Kate Gosselin wrought?

MBach said...

Let's see...punching bag or douche bag?
Okay, your wife has told you the marriage is over - because I TOTALLY believe Jon's version of this as he told to Jodi and Kevin. Your marriage of over 9 years, with 8 young children is over. Your personal life is over as he stated "I'm not Jon anymore, I'm Jon and Kate plus 8". You are 31 years old, but more or less frozen in your development at around age 22.

What do you do?
Well a deeply hurt and immature person would lash out in the only possible way. Drink and party until you are caught by the cameras being stupid. Which is exactly what happened; over and over again.

Now its really out there, and everyone is watching. What do you do? Lash out more. Get your picture taken with more women. Drink some more. Really? Drinking does not stop depression, it only deepens it, and you loose control. Yes, human mistakes, human failings do and continue to happen. However, when is the time to pull your head out of your rear, and then get straight? When do you think -this is not working? It took him almost a year. Yes, most of those stories about Jon were slanted, but how many covers does it take to keep you home? A year of being linked with Lohan types who would sell their own mother's kidney for a buck. Now Hailey has also turned on him.

When do you go back to family? When do you shut up, and stay off the air?

I haven't watched Dr. Phil for months now, but he often questions "How is that working for you?" or uses "Don't be a right fighter." I feel both apply.

Becoming the party boy did not work for Jon. Going on all those shows and fighting for his right to be upset, hurt, and known as the injured person in this mess did not work for Jon.

Honestly, my heart goes out to him. Jon wasn't innocent in making this mess of his family life, but he was treated so poorly by Kate. He just didn't have the life experience to handle such a big change, and such pressure. He acted stupid over and over. However, Kate had all of TLC behind her, including a bodyguard/handler. What did Jon have?

Yes, hindsight is 20/20 so maybe he is getting better. It certainly seems so, and I want someone to be able to help those kids live a child's life. Jon, with all his mistakes, still seems their best bet at this point. I wish the kids and him the best.

karma train said...

Swissmiss said...

Why does Kate continually visit the UPS/Fed Ex store? Are people still sending her freebies? Whatever for???

Why isn't the stuff delivered to her house? Or if she is mailing stuff out, won't they come to her house?

Oh, wait, I don't think Starbucks/Dunkin Donuts will deliver to her house?
____________

She gets her mail at that mailing store. Some people don't want their mail delivered to their house.

jibberjabbers said...

Radar is saying they are "audio" proof that Jon was breaking TLC contract.

His manager was caught on "audio tape" making deals for Jon.

1st: The tape will be thrown out and his Manager can sue if the conversation was recorded w/o permission.

2nd: So what if his manager is making deals? Jon has to be the one to accept the deals.

Didn't Radar scream 2 months ago that Jon was fired from TLC. lol Now they're saying he's in breach of contract.

Matter of fact, every media outlet says that Jon was fired from TLC.

So they all got it

MickeyMcKean said...

This morning on ROL I found an audio of a telephone call with Jon's PR guy Heller (son of Jon's attorney) and Michael Lohan.

I have known that ROL is incahoots with TLC - and since ROL is so neutral with both Jon and Kate - how convenient it is for TLC to try Jon in the court of public opinion using ROL what I consider to be an Internet rag.

Just more tactics to use against Jon in the hopes he will back down and reconsider allowing filming of his children.

STAY STRONG JON!

Can't See Sheep said...

Blogger MickeyMcKean said...

This morning on ROL I found an audio of a telephone call with Jon's PR guy Heller (son of Jon's attorney) and Michael Lohan.
--------------------------

Is that Lohan idiot still selling phone conversations?!?!?!?

can't stand her said...

Kate gets worked up over criticism and rumors about her, but doesn't say poo about mean things said about her own child. Wow, so awful. No wonder this blog exists.

Elaine said...

Where are these dunkin donuts/starbucks pics? I can't find them.

PA Woman said...

Tami said...
I wonder if Hate having primary custody means Jon can't use the house for visits anymore while she leaves? That would just be wrong. I wonder if there was some agreement that she owns the house.

***************

I doubt see will get the house. They will probably spit it and if Kate wants it for herself she will have to buy out John.

If kate is going to have her own show, my guess is that she will continue to have Jon be able to stay at the house with the kids. She is going to want a free baby sitter while she is gone.

PA Woman said...

Dunwoody Mom said...
Actually, that is how TLC/ROL portrayed Jon. Everyone needs to quit forming their opinion on Jon based on tabloid media - they were paid by TLC to put the worst possible light on Jon in order to get Jon to cave and let the kids be filmed again.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Exactly, however most are going to believe what they read. That's what keeps the tabloids in business.

Betty said...

The most disturbing thought for today comes from Jon himself. They (Jon and Kate) did realize that pedophiles watched their show to see the intimate moments of their children. Yet they still continued to film and let the show air. Even now, Kate wants the spotlight so much that she was willing to let the kids be filmed changing as recently as this fall. And Kate whined through an entire episode last night about the show ending. What does she think or can she?

SunnyGrace said...

What is ROL?

NoUse4Kate said...

It is www.radaronline.com A cheap and sleazy extension of the National Enquirer.

Can't See Sheep said...

NoUse4Kate said...
A cheap and sleazy extension of the National Enquirer.
------------

Almost describes TLC too.

AndiMominIL said...

AOL is reporting that there is a tax lien against the Elizabethtown house for unpaid water bills...to the tune of over $2,000. It says that Kate is responsible for making sure these bills are paid.

Sign of things to come?!?!

yeaisaidthat said...

AOL is reporting that there is a tax lien against the Elizabethtown house for unpaid water bills...to the tune of over $2,000. It says that Kate is responsible for making sure these bills are paid.


Perhaps Kate cannot find it within herself to pay the long over due water bill on their Elizabethtown home for the same lame reason she gave for not attending church?
Anything that remotely involves 'memories' of the family as it 'was' ( ie 10) serves zero significance in her life and simply ignored.

No Drama Mama said...

The lien placed on the E-town property is NOT for unpaid water bills. It is for tapping into the city water/sewer line. THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE IN ETOWN WHO HAVE TO PAY THIS. They just HAVEN'T paid theirs... It could be something that was an oversight and that they were not aware of until after the fee was due.

The borough in which I live is in the process of making all residents connect into the water/sewer and the price they are quoted is about the same. There are payment plans available, etc.

My feeling is they did not willingly pay the $$ up front because they are no longer living there and this way, the money will be taken out of the proceeds from the sale of the home when that should happen.

Charles said...

SunnyGrace said...
What is ROL?

11/24/2009 2:14 PM
-----------------------------

ROL is Radaronline. You can Google it and see photos, stories, videos about current events. Be aware that it is known to be "sleezy."

Sidney said...

The Today Show did not list Kate as one of their top people picks for the year 2009. Good!

But Barbara Walters did pick Kate as one of The Most Fascinating people for 2009.

Fascinating does not necessarily mean exemplary, admirable, honorable or heroic.

It can be contemptible, deplorable, despicable, or reprehensible.

Adam Lambert and Kate fall into the second catagory.

Read more: http://justjared.buzznet.com/2009/11/24/adam-lambert-kate-gosselin-barbara-walters-fascinating-people/#ixzz0Xu3KmSP9

Elvira said...

http://www.tv.com/the-life-and-death-of-jon-and-kate/story/19757.html?tag=news_hub_stories;

fidosmommy said...

Ah, so now we know why the ladies of "The View" were kissing up to
Kate. Barbara wanted her to sit for an interview later in the year!

Lee in RI said...

Thanks, Elvira, for the tv.com link. The article is so well-worded and for me, says it all. Jon and Kate were, most probably, fairly normal and then.... twins and the lucrative sextuplets. It really was like watching the slow demise of a family.
Thanks to the moderators of this blog. I have posted a few times over the last 18 months, but have enjoyed other's comments regularly.
The events of the last 6 months have made me even more concerned about the welfare of the children. God bless them!

PaMa said...

How sad ... the Gosselin children have lots of family within driving distance and they have to spend their Thanksgiving with Kate's bodyguard (aka, paid employee).

For the Moment? said...

I wonder how BW feels now that one of her most fascinating people also got picked for Turkey of the Year. I am sure Kate will bring her Artificial Tear drops to the set for that one. The woman doesn't have a real tear in her body.

Midnight Serenade said...

"My feeling is they did not willingly pay the $$ up front because they are no longer living there and this way, the money will be taken out of the proceeds from the sale of the home when that should happen."

There is a mortgage on this house. There is now a lien on the house. Are you sure that they can sell it with a lien on it? Doesn't that have to be paid BEFORE the house is sold?

MJ said...

You can't get a clear title with a lien on a property. Liens will scare off most buyers.