Complying With Non-Existent Laws

The Pennsylvania Department of Labor is now investigating whether Jon & Kate Plus 8 is complying with child labor laws after someone filed a complaint.

That's a great start, but don't stop there. Investigating compliance to laws that are virtually non-existent when it comes to children being pimped out by their parents on reality TV shows? Let's hope the results of this "investigation" won't just be shrugged shoulders and continued ignoring of the real problem.

How about actually putting some decent laws in place? You know, like this blog has been asking for since last Spring?

200 comments:

Jen K said...

It would be great if this resulted in:

1. A more thorough investigation of the childrens' general welfare in the home.

2. Tougher laws.

3. A compliance with said laws.

4. A law that would require an impartial child advocate be "on set" whenever "work" is happening, even if it is in their house or any house that a reality show is being filmed.

5. End to the show...peace for the kids.

LovinMyRugrats said...

GWOPers,

If you haven't seen the interview with Paul Peterson (former child actor and founder of A Minor Consideration) on CNN Showbiz Tonight, check it out. He does NOT back down.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/showbiz.tonight/

I hope he is being consulted about getting some laws passed to protect children in reality shows.

I've banned TLC, DISCOVERY and ANIMAL PLANET in my house. Told them so, too. Won't do any good, I know, but I had to do something to voice my opinion.

I'm glad that PA is investigating, but I don't think they'll turn up much since existing child labor laws don't address anything remotely like this situation. As stated by the post, non-existent laws can't be enforced.

LovinMyRugrats said...

Jen K,

Totally agree.

Katie said...

I hope this is the first step in getting laws passed to safeguard these children from any further exploitation. Actually, I really hope that this is a step in the direction of protecting ALL children from ever finding themselves in a situation like this.

RememberMe said...

I guess this is good. But, they'll probably find that they comply with the laws, since the laws provide the children no protection. Then, Kate, TLC, and the sheeple will feel vindicated.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090529/ap_en_tv/us_tv_jon___kate_investigation

Concerned Mom said...

yahoo!!!!! what great news! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31001777/

I am so glad the state is finally paying attention!

lexie said...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522999,00.html heres the fox news story stating the same! at least this is finally bringing in attention!

Finally Some justice... said...

I really hope this goes far and they take Kate and Jon, as well as TLC down for exploiting their children. I bet Kate is shaking in her $250.00 heels. I really hope those kids get justice. Is there somehow we can write letters to make sure this doesn't just get ignored?

Mommy in PA said...

I sent this link on another thread a little while ago, I guess it would be more appropriate here (though this post was not yet here when I sent the link the first time):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090529/ap_en_tv/us_tv_jon___kate_investigation

diane090 said...

It is about time someone takes a look into this situation. -- Maybe nothing will be done but, at least "Mommy dearest" will understand that she IS being watched. These children should be living care free lives and not having to worry about filling up their parents bank accounts. When in the end Kate looks around, she will find herself completely alone. What a sad,sad situation for all involved.

Techymum said...

My guess is that TLC has sharp enough lawyers tht no laws were broken. You can't break laws that don't exist.

THe door has been opened, tho, and just maybe it will be called "The Gosselin Law".

Lets hope.

I would love to hear Kates reaction to this said...

Since there are no labor laws I really hope the kids get questioned whether or not they want to do this (unless Kate brainwashes them with candy to say they love it, this could be affective), or possibly it could be construed as some form of abuse? I know that might be really strong but there could definitely be a case against them. I also hope Jodie and Kevin continue to help so that they can shed more light to investigators in the situation. I really REALLY hope something is done. My fingers are crossed. This could also lead to the investigators finding out exactly how many hours the children are forced to work, how exactly things are schedules, the way they set things up and coax the kids into doing things. Etc.

michelle** said...

I believe more people are starting to pay attention now. I'm so glad Kevin and Julie are speaking out and I believe more should also do so within the inner circle...such as Beth Carson, past sitters, ect.

Even Bill O'Reilly discussed this show two nights in a row this week. Anyone see this? I hope you can find these links and post them.

Anonymous said...

This is bittersweet,I really hope PA makes the changes needed after review this case.

Vanessa

CarrieG said...

Maybe this will be just the precedent that is needed to establish laws that currently don't exist. With reality TV as a new genre, there really hasn't been a need for laws like this before in places like PA. Hopefully now, with this investigation, they will realize that such laws are merited. I hope they are allowed to talk to the Gosselin children about how it affects them.

allison81900 said...

It's about time! Generally, I don't like for government to step in and control parenting but in this case, I think something needs to be done for the welfare of the children. The children are being exploited by Kate, Jon, and TLC, so if takes the PA dept of labor to shut this operation down, then so be it. Jon and Kate are too busy with the lifestyle the exploitation of their children has brought them and quite frankly, it sickens me and breaks my heart for the kids.

Knick of Time said...

I doubt Kate fears anything except watching her money burn. She feels "protected" by her TLC peeps and until that boat sinks she won't lose a night's sleep worrying about this investigation. She believes she is above the law.

You can tell just by her actions. If she believes she is an authentic AUTHOR, MOTHER, WIFE, FRIEND, ACTRESS, etc... you better believe that she believes she is above the law.

Personally, I hope this investigation among others brings her to her knees and puts her in the funny farm where she belongs.

Jon and Kate ain't so great said...

I have a concern.If J&K+8 is cancelled then who will keep an eye on the children's lives? Scary thought.

just wondering said...

My concern (while this is a wonderful step in the right direction) is that Kate may, in the long run, end up actually blaming the children for the intrusion.

I'm terribly afraid that they may actually be safer with the cameras than without them. She has already left so much documentation of her verbal denigration and mockery towards them that I have to wonder how bad it is at home when the cameras aren't filming.

I absolutely shudder at the thought of having Kate Gosselin for a mother.

WomanMother said...

What's very sad is hearing that that the PA Dept. of Labor ceased investigating because the big wig lawyers at TLC had those loopholes covered since its inception.

What if nothing is done and these children are forced (as last season) to do 40 episodes out of the 52 weeks of a year?

What's really fair is that Kate be brought up on charges of criminal FRAUD by swindling people out of their money by crying povery and not doing what's in the best interest of her children by exposing them to constant media scrutiny. Yeah, Mother of the Year alright.

Last I checked, pimps go to prison.

Tangerine Tanya said...

If the show stops then Kate will say:

"You mean I can't have my cake and eat it too?"

(Say with the same voice that poor little Aaden said when he was denied his birthday cupcake)

That is called KARMA kate.

season 5? said...

I have to agree that TLC has made mighty sure they are complying with existing laws,
but at least maybe the Dept of Labor will conclude these children are WORKING and not just "doing what they would naturally be doing."
It could pave the way for better laws and get rid of the abstract/hypothetical.

diane090 said...

Jon & Kate Plus 8 dad Jon Gosselin continues to deal with allegations of infidelity and rumors of a pending divorce.

For the first time, the 32-year-old’s mom, Pamela Gosselin, is taking a stand and speaking out in support of her son.

“I don’t think he will ever be portrayed fairly,” a frustrated Pamela tells Star of Jon’s relationship with wife Kate Gosselin. “It’s always twisted. I don’t think it’s fair, and it never will be.”

posted on justjared website 1 hr. ago

bedonenow said...

Not time to ease up. We must keep up the pressure on the State of PA, including to state's Attorney General's office. Nothing can be done to give love offerings back to people that have been scammed, but whatever is left of the money can and should be put into trusts for the children.

Lawyers out there - could the parents be given support payments from the children's money? Is this something that anyone could contact their congress rep about - ensuring FEDERAL LAWS for children or is this a state matter only?

Please dont watch the show. Please dont pay your weekly zoo admission to these parents. Be Done Now. Please.

sueshe said...

Oh gosh someone better call Kate and tell her there is a slim chance that her mega million $$$ show could be coming to an end. She might want to cut down on the spa treatments and shopping trips...

organizedblogroll said...

Not just laws governing the hours the children are filmed, but

WHAT ABOUT A TRUST FUND.

Kate has already said she children are not acting, and IT'S HER MONEY.

MM2005 said...

KON's favorite line to justify each and every excess is -- "the kids so deserve this!"

Well, this investigation may lead to something the kids really DO deserve.

I HATE EVERBODY! said...

Is it wrong for me to say I hate J&K and that this new situation is just the icing on the cake?

lindahoyt said...

Oh dear God in Heaven, PLEASE! State of PA, confiscate the unaired footage of the show--to see just what these children have been through!

I believe that the footage will show physical and mental abuse by Kate Gosselin. And could result in charges against the production company for not turning the abuse into the child protective services!

GravyTrain said...

The good news for TLC is that 10 million viewers watched the season opener - the bad news is 9 million of them are disgusted by the way the kids are being exploited.

In the end, record high ratings might have been a bad thing for TLC and J&K+8. There are a lot of lissed off people.

Milehimama said...

Perhaps someone should file a complaint in CA, since they filmed there last year? They went to Legoland, or something, and Kate took Mady to SF last season, didn't she?

Tara said...

I hope the laws in PA don't change. Here's why.... If they followed child actor laws in CA, the kids could go to school on set and be taught by a tutor.

I prefer them to be in school. Even if they miss a day here or there, they are in school most of the time. Child actor laws are not full proof.

And as far as protecting their money, Jon and Kate will always make the majority of the money. Look at the shows, it is mostly the parents on camera. Each child is only shown for a short period.

I think the kids have a better life now than if they were under child actor rules. I think they should stay in school.

Milehimama said...

I wonder what will happen when the PDL discovers the children are not being paid, therefore, they are not employees...

cjmiller53 said...

I hope this investigation is thorough and also verifies that each child has their share of the salaries they earned in trust funds for college and future needs they each may encounter. Jon and Kate also should have to give them each a portion from the church engagements and "love offerings". Wonder if J & K's income taxes will also come under investigation? Great work to all of you longtime GWOPers...finally there may be someone to make sure the children are lawfully protected.

lindahoyt said...

What laws are there in PA?

AppysRTheBest said...

I just saw this, sorry if it's already been posted:

"http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b126461_jon_kate_plus_8_plus_child_labor.html">EOnline ArticleAlso a special is suppose to be on tonight about the whole mess.

Those poor kids.

Linzerella said...

I'm from Canada so we live with the legacy of the Dionne Quintuplets and the exploitation they endured at the hands of the Ontario government.

Claims were made with millions of visitors to "Quintland" viewed them "playing" daily, that the quints were unaware of those observing them ... much like the same claims have been made about the Gosselin children. As Paul Peterson remarks, children are observant and the Gosselins know everything going on around them.

I hate to reference the letter from the Dionne sisters to the McCaughey sextuplets, but these sentences really resonate with me:

"Multiple births should not be confused with entertainment, nor should they be an opportunity to sell products.

Our lives have been ruined by the exploitation we suffered at the hands of the government of Ontario, our place of birth."

Familiar words for a familiar situation...

Milehimama said...

Here's what CA law says:

Minors aged 15 days to 18 years employed in the entertainment industry must have a permit to work, and employers must have a permit to employ, both permits being issued by the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement. These permits are also required for minors making phonographic recordings or who are employed as advertising or photographic models. Permits are required even when the entertainment is noncommercial in nature.

There is no fee to obtain an entertainment work permit. The application for permission to work in the entertainment industry must be filled out completely and mailed, along with any required documents and a pre-addressed, stamped envelope, to any office of the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement. To find the nearest DLSE office, use the division's office locator. Please note that the Van Nuys Office, located at 6150 Van Nuys Blvd., Room 100, (818-901-5484) is available for walk-in service from 8:00 a.m. to 4:45 p.m., Monday through Friday.

Employers intending to employ minors in the entertainment industry must complete the application for permission to employ minors in the entertainment industry and submit it, along with proof of workers' compensation insurance coverage, to any Division of Labor Standards Enforcement office. To find a DLSE office, use the division's office locator.
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/DLSE-CL.htm

So... wondering if they got a work permit?

Naj said...

Knick of Time said...
(KATE)
You can tell just by her actions. If she believes she is an authentic AUTHOR, MOTHER, WIFE, FRIEND, ACTRESS, etc... you better believe that she believes she is above the law.
***
You forgot Chef (she's writing a cookbook).

lindahoyt said...

I think the best we can hope for, like I said previously, is that the Dept. of Labor seizes all the unused video, in an attempt to see how long the family is taped, and to see if any child pornography laws have been broken.

That video would then have to be turned over to the Child Protective Services if there were any hint of any kind of child abuse.

I would think all of the naked video, by people who are NOT family members would be questionable.

ImFrancie said...

This is good. If nothing else, this will shine a much-needed light into the Gosselin universe. It might also serve to loosen more tongues about what is going on behind the scenes. And, as someone said upthread, it might lead to an investigation of other areas of concern.

I, for one, wonder about the amount of time the twins are out of school as a result of the show. This lifestyle must certainly have a negative effect on their academic achievement, and social too. I've never seen the twins do anything typical for their age: sports teams, music lessons, dance, day camps, or even homework! Maybe they do some of these things off-camera, whenever THAT might be, but it is certainly not what is shown on TV. I guess I would not object if someone gave them a big 'ol Steinway and piano lessons.

Beans said...

I don't think the kids can be considered to be "going about there day" while cameras just happen to be there filming because each and everyone of them has been forced/coerced/bribed into or told to say "...on this episode of Jon and Kate Plus 8..."

Kim in Berks County said...

WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just read the headlines for the local tv news and saw this!!

Serves you right, Kate. You wanted to be famous and now you got it. It's because of you that new laws will be passed!!

WomanMother said...

One other thing I hope the PA Dept. of Labor realizes is that these kids do work and are scripted at times.

What about when the kids say "Coming up next on Jon & Kate plus Eight!" , do they think the kids just wake up everyday and decide to say that...over and over until the take is just right!?!?!

Laurie said...

"I would love to hear Kates reaction to this said...
Since there are no labor laws I really hope the kids get questioned whether or not they want to do this (unless Kate brainwashes them with candy to say they love it..."

I don't for a minute believe that she'd bribe them with candy. She is evil enough to bribe them with "If you don't say you love doing the show mommy and daddy won't be able to stay together." She make me sick and I believe that she will stoop to anything to keep this gravy train going.

mermaids said...

When I heard about Mady & Hate taking a trip to CA, just the two of them, I thought "How weird?" Then I it occurred to me that perhaps this is a form of "hush money" for Mady. She is a smart little girl who is not afraid to speak her mind. Did she threaten to spill the beans, so Kate offered her a special trip to CA to placate her? I would not put it past her... and TLC.

One day, Mady is going to tell all.

lindahoyt said...

Star Magazine ScanYou can go down to the bottom right of your browswer and increase the "zoom level" to 200%...then you can read the story.

Legal advice from me...not a lawyer, but have dealt with legal issues as a public official: JON DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME EVER!!!!

Possession is 9 tenths of the law.

Jon leaves, Kate charges him with abandonment.

Jon, stay. Tough it out. For the kids. Tell your story. Get the agreement out to the public...that would be the end of the show, and the beginning of your freedom. Do it. Listen to us here. You need help. Stop drinking, stop "going out"...exert your power, while you still have it.

As I said before, 'spray Kate with the hose'....splash cold water in her face.

vipersue said...

I doubt if any Pa laws have been broken. The TLC lawyers are too smart for that and I understand Pa has almost no laws protecting kids in this kind of situation. I do think it is good because it will show Kate that someone else with authority is watching and monitoring her and hopefully laws will be changed in the future. What a difference a few months makes. Kate can no longer play her games with impunity.

Shut It Down! said...

maybe the Dept of Labor will conclude these children are WORKING and not just "doing what they would naturally be doing."
------------
Yeah -- kind of hard to argue that the kids would just spontaneously look into the cameras and recite, "On this episode of Jon & Kate + 8" isn't it? Also, the TLC BS about the children having the option not to film...Really? A child can say, "No, I don't want to be dragged all over the country making memories while I'm being filmed." Riiight, that's going to happen.

And the sheeple supporters who say the tups have been filmed since they were born; they don't know any difference. Uh, doesn't that just prove how wrong this is??!! That those innocent children don't know what real life is?? Truly sickening. There should be criminal charges brought against all the adults involved in this fiasco.

nanasez said...

I hope the laws in PA don't change. Here's why.... If they followed child actor laws in CA, the kids could go to school on set and be taught by a tutor.

***************

The kids could be kept out of school and homeschooled right now, in PA. Keeping the antiquated labor laws won't prevent that, if that's what Kate chooses to do. And if the show continues much longer, she may choose that in order to isolate those children and prevent them from talking to friends, teachers, and others about the reality of their life behind the scenes.

Chris said...

I just don't understand why laws are not already in place. I remember when I first started working at 14 how strictly the laws were enforced. I went to a private school and even though my school schedule was different and I was working in a doctors office or law office , when 4 hours were up I had to go. I want to work more and got good grades but was not allowed.
I can't imagine being 5 and having no choice. I would think an impartial "consulor or guardian" for each child should be assigned. I can't imagine how Kate would react to losing control. We see how she controls Jon into contining the show (if she bribes him with gifts and $$) what she tells the kids. I have this bad thought that she probably tells them they would be homeless without the show.

KB said...

Woo Hoo! Progress!

AbbyandEvaMom said...

If I were a resident of Pennsylvania, here's what I would do:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/

Go to the top right of this page and input your zip code to find all members of gov't who represent your area.

Then go down to the left hand side of the page,click on the General Assembly tab, the Senate tab and the House tab to find out WHO are my Pennsylvania Legislators, my Congressmen and my Senators and I would call and write to those people until the cows come home.

These are the people who legislate/create any law that is put into place. They can create the Gosselin law!! You bet they can!! You voted them in and make them do it!!

Call their offices, send letters in clear, concise words, stating that the entertainment child labor laws to protect reality show children NEED to be legislated and put into place in Pennsylvania ASAP OR ELSE you will NOT VOTE for those people in the next election.

You'll be surprised at the results you get.

KidsRthePriority said...

Technically, the current PA laws may not have been broken...
BUT..
if the investigation finds that the house is a set (as it is in Extreme Home makeover), then we have a whole new ballgame. Good heavens, if that home isn't a set, what is? Reading the PA law posted, there are existing violations in that (a) the kids have been filmed prior to age 7, (b) I would love to see a copy of any permit filed for the twins, and (c)the kids have been filmed at establishments that serve alcohol.

Would really love to have someone review the unused film - that may the key to getting the home deemed a set, which is the big key.

With enough "encouragement" perhaps we can get the good Commonwealth of PA to enact more stringent laws. Keep calling those phone numbers. The focus is finally where it belongs (on the exploitation of the kids), let's keep it there.

Side note: at least now this is not a total cash cow for TLC. Now they have to pay bigh billable hours for all the lawyers for all these allegations and investigations. What is it they say about payback...?

Mother of Two(couldn't afford more...) said...

Now the state of PA. needs to investigate Kate receiving cash donations from church-goers under false circumstances (saying they were poor, while similtaneously receiving millions of dollars from T.V. shows, book sales, speaking engagements, sales of J&k+8 branded-products, product-placement, freebies, and who knows what else). Someone said Jon and Kate asking for monetary donations under false circumstances could be considered a Ponzi scheme. Is that true? Could the state get them for this under any other statues that anyone is aware of? Anyone? Seeing Kate behind bars for all the crimes she has committed against her own children would be the ultimate reward. Then she would know what the children have felt like behind bars for the last 5 years. Taking away the show, and letting Jon and Kate walk away with 10 million dollars is not justice. They should be brought to justice in a court of law for all their deceptions, lies, manipulations and utter disregard for human decency. If Bernie Madoff were able to walk away scott -free with millions of dollars of ill-gotten gains, and live out his life in luxury, would that be justice? Likewise, Jon and Kate should not be able to make off with all the money with no consequences !!!

just wondering said...

ImFrancie said...
I've never seen the twins do anything typical for their age: sports teams, music lessons, dance, day camps, or even homework! Maybe they do some of these things off-camera, whenever THAT might be, but it is certainly not what is shown on TV. I guess I would not object if someone gave them a big 'ol Steinway and piano lessons.

***********************************

I can't picture letting the kids do anything that isn't free or actually generating income for her. Nope.. Not gonna happen...

Casi said...

Did anyone else see that, in addition to this investigation, those who have seen advanced excerpts from Kate's supposed cookbook are claiming plagiarism? Saw it last night on E!

When it finally rains, it certainly does pour!

Former PA Resident said...

I think this could very well be the undoing of the show. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania *can* be tough in the enforcement of laws when it wants to be.

This is just the sort of thing that would play very well for aggressive government bureaucrat careerists, officials from Children and Youth Services, the DA, politicians, etc.

Any number of these officials could have those Jon & Kate pimps in their crosshairs in order to promote their own careers and politically grandstand.

The derailing of the kiddie gravy train may well be imminent. I'd stay tuned to this.

just wondering said...

Chris said...

I can't imagine being 5 and having no choice. I would think an impartial "consulor or guardian" for each child should be assigned. I can't imagine how Kate would react to losing control.

***********************************

That would be a CASA volunteer, and I can't believe that one still has not been appointed by the courts. It would have happened here in Indiana two years ago.

Jennifer D said...

From the article:

"Jon & Kate Plus 8" tapes off and on throughout the year, averaging two to three hours a day, two to three days a week, Goldberg said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is an attorney speaking and we need to carefully read between the lines. The word AVERAGING is the key. If they add up all the days and hours they tape and then divide by 365 days a year it probably does add up to 2-3 hours per day.

Let's play with that number. Meet them in the middle and let's go with 2.5 hours per day.

2.5 hours x 365 days= 912.5 hours (per year)

912.5 hours divided between 40 episodes equals 22.81 or 23 hours to make the math easy.

So that is 23 hours per episode. i am assuming that they are taping on episode per week. According to KON they are taping 3 days a week. That means they are taping for an about 8 hours each day.

This is all total speculation, of course, but I think I am pretty close to the truth.

Concerned Mom said...

/What about when the kids say "Coming up next on Jon & Kate plus Eight!" , do they think the kids just wake up everyday and decide to say that...over and over until the take is just right!?!?!/

This so true!!! I hope the investigator is a compassionate, yet through person and catches this.

jonandkatewho? said...

I'm worried that all they will do is take a cursory look at the show and dismiss it all. I too think TLC is probably pretty careful about existing laws.

My hope is that somebody with clout gets involved and just won't let it go until we get some new laws passed. Maybe they should be national.

wicked witch lives in wernersville said...

Local here.. newscaster on wfmz " now it is Jon and Kate plus the state"..had to chuckle to myself!!

I'm just sayin said...

It's going down!

Elle said...

Even if the kids are not technically "acting" (ie reciting lines, performing specific behaviors repeatedly for just the "right shot") the knowledge that they are being filmed CHANGES WHO THEY ARE. Everyone, including small children, adjusts their behavior when they are being filmed. It's basic psychology. And it WILL lead to abnormal behavioral and setbacks down the road. I can see it in them already, as I know many of you can.

HURRY! said...

This is what I really had hoped for. I'm gonna be so pissed if they drop the investigation or just ignore the fact that these kids are getting exploited.

I also would love to know if TLC is giving each kid a paycheck for their appearances on the show?!

AnneinNewWest said...

All I can hope is this "investigation" will open another one but for the "taxes". As mad as I was at the ratings for last weeks show I now look at it a blessing that EVERYONE is now looking into this show, more eyes on it hopefully will make someone wake up and smell the kon-con!

Allissa said...

I agree with many. Hopefully, new child labor laws will be the end result of this investigation. I bet KON and TLC will not be found "guilty" of exploiting these kids. Like many said, what Pa. laws can they go by? I do hope it brings an end to the show for the kids' sakes. Kate can go on and be a "celebrity", or whatever she thinks she is, while her kids are safe with family, Jon or whomever will put their needs first. kate needs to fall flat on her lying face.

mrst said...

TLC states that if the child does not want to be filmed, then they will not film that child that day. Dear TLC, children of that age do not understand the ramifications of being filmed for public viewing.

finallysomegoodnews said...

Woohoo! I can't wait to watch the new show: PA State vs. Jon & Kate!

JFS in IL said...

What about when the Gosselins were filmmed in Florida, N. Carolina, Hawaii....CALIFORNIA (San Diego). Were the local child labor laws being followed then??? If PA can't nab the adults, can't another state?

And, everytime TLC has the kids in an AD for the show, or they pose for a Magazine like Good Housekeeping - isn't that "working" under PA law???

M said...

Didn't the Gosselins have studio lighting installed in their old home? If so, if the kids were not working and going about their normal day, then why in hades would they need studio lighting? Looks to me they could argue all the time they filmed in their old home, it would be considered a studio since it was equipped as such? Just a thought.

ProtectTheKids said...

Also, I'd like to see a guardian ad litem appointed to oversee the children's finances. Each member (J+K+ the 8 kids) of the family should receive 10% of whatever J&K make.

Sue said...

I am horrified to think of the possibility that Kate has not set aside ANY money for the kids.
Why else would she claim that she has to keep working (i.e. the "show" must go on)?

BoyMomInTX said...

I don't understand that claim either "they've been doing this since they were born so they don't know any different."

So, if I was beating my child since the day he was born and he didn't know mommies weren't supposed to do that, it'd be okay?! It's appalling!

I love that thought though-10 million may have tuned in but 9 million hated what they saw. Even the fans can't deny that there has been an internet/media back-lash against the Gosselins this week following their premiere.

MayDay said...

Are there are rules from taking scriptures right out of the bible and publishing them like Kate did with 8 Little Faces? Is any "citing" required for using bible verses? I know when I did my thesis APA style, we had to cite everything little thing that was not my own words. What about Kate and her scriptures verses? Apparently someone else wrote them. How does she get away with it all?

minus9 said...

Not sure if this was posted already but Jon's mother has made a public, though brief, statement.

From Perezhilton.com:

Kate Gosselin's blabbing family can't have all the glory.

Now, Jon Gosselin's momma wants a piece of the media attention and she is letting American know that her son is getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop!

In an exclusive interview with Star magazine, Pamela Gosselin, who has never been seen or heard from on the show, weighs in on the scandal facing her son.

She says, "I don't think he will ever be portrayed fairly. It's always twisted…I don't think it's fair, and it never will be."

That's it?

No harsh words for Kate or rambling about protecting the children?

Boo!

Much like Jon versus Kate, Jon's family is clearly less interesting than Kate's.

[Image via AP Images

JTN said...

Could federal child labor laws apply? If a product crosses state lines (as this does via airwaves and I'm fairly sure the final cuts of the show are not edited in PA) then the commerce clause of the Constitution can kick in. Historically, the national government has used that in justification for anti-discrimination laws as well as original child labor law.

Carissa said...

Finally! We're back to being concerned about the kids!

A few quick comments:
1)The article from ENews (linked in an earlier post) states that PA will investigate every complaint. I know a lot of locals are on this site, so please, please encourage your neighbors to report anything fishy that they observe or may know of.

2)I heard about Kate's plagiarism, too. I'm posting one link from Yahoo that gives some specifics toward the end of the article and another from Perez Hilton (just for the picture alone!).

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/kate-gosselin-to-release-love-is-in-the-mix-cookbook/23059

http://perezhilton.com/2009-05-28-a-cook-book-kate-gosselin-keeps-cashing-in

3)Lastly, some good news. I don't know a single person, sheeple included, who are going to watch this show after seeing the season premiere. Everyone I know feels sorry for the children and disgusted that the parents would continue with this given the current state of their marriage. Finally!

SpoiledMom said...

I pray PA Dept of Labor has PA Dept of Child Services called in.

Another poster had a great thought as well regarding the Gosselin trip to CA (San Diego). One of their first episodes was to California for a church "speaking engagement"--the "pinecone gate" episode. (Boy, if Kate would have gotten arrested for "attempted theft of those oranges" that day...heh)

Every state that they have travelled should be petitioned to check for laws in place in that state regarding child labor. i.e. their trips to FL (Disney); NC & SC (beach); Utah (skiing); Hawaii (wedding); NY (trip to American Girl, as well as others). As well as all of the other 'hither tither and yon' places they have drug these poor children, not for fun family vacations, but for ratings for a tv show. "Uncle Kevin's words still ring in my ears when he said that "when the kids get older, they will look back and realize that it was all for ratings." Kate may have had half her heart into it, but the remainder was pure production. To not be home on Mother's Day/Sextuplets' 5th birthday due to her People magazine cover shoot/interview is just a hard pill to swallow.

BastaAlready said...

Pennsylvania/Table of Child Entertainment Provisions

Yes: (State regulates child entertainment)

Yes: work permit needed-Minors 7 to under 18 need special permits from Dept. of Labor and Industry, and can’t work where there is alcohol.

To obtain special permits need: application signed by parent and employer, and with the seal of notary. Includes provisions for educational instruction, supervision, health, welfare, and the safeguarding and conservation for the minor of the monies derived from such performances

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/state/childentertain.htm

Hopefully, these kids will be recognized as "entertainers".

Vicki said...

When I turned on the computer this afternoon and read about the probe, I breathed a big sigh, sadly and with a heavy heart but also with relief, and said to myself, "it's about time."

GWoP was a huge eye-opener for me. I tell everybody I come across about it. It's nothing short of stunning how this site has exploded in just the couple of months I've been reading and posting on it. I think there were many, many people watching the J&K reality show, scratching their heads and looking at each other confusedly, "say what???" Then, collectively, as more and more folks spoke out on blogs, with letters, etc., a call to action grew on behalf of what's right for young children in a "family job."

It's ugly, and probably anybody you talk to wishes it didn't have to come to all this but, if things had just been honest and conscientious from the get-go, with both TLC and the Gosselin parents doing what was best for the eight children involved, we wouldn't have seen this momentum.

Despite the ugliness, it's a beautiful thing, truly, to see people wanting to speak out and uphold the rights of, and protect the welfare of, innocent children.

NahnCee said...

So the woman who caused the suicide of the teenager on MySpace was tried in Los Angeles, on the grounds that her computer service was based in California, and not in her home state, which had no laws to prosecute her.

I wonder where TLC's home office is, what address is on the TLC checks that Kate cashes, and whether California's child labor laws and Coogan law couldn't be implemented, given the money and the contracts might both flow from CA rather than PA.

Ms.Peach said...

Jon needs to get some legal advice about TLC not destroying the unused film.

SpoiledMom said...

As far as TLC's comment earlier this week that there were no cameras installed in the children's' bedrooms..

was that not how Kate found out it was Alexis getting up early and waking the other kids up at 4am??

Also, there is an episode that clearly shows that a mounted camera was in the boys' bedroom and showed time lapsed footage of "nap time"...where the boys were running around instead of napping.

TLC also states that the same crew is still filming and is considered "extended family"... BLATANT LIE.

What fools TLC takes its viewers for.

We all know that Jen Stocks is gone.

Scott Enrow and "Jim the soundguy" are both now with the Duggar family. Wonder if these were the ones that had moral issues with what they were filming at the Gosselin house?
Odd that the new episode of 18 Kids and Counting made a point to show Scott and Jim several times during the episode. (which just happened to be about hanging blinds for lighting...hmm haven't we seen that somewhere before?) Although, Michelle Duggar didn't pitch a hissy fit like Kate did about it.

Just A Thought said...

Can we hope the IRS is next???

LordyBe said...

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/ask_the_answer_bitch/b124311_why_does_kate_gosselin_even_need.html

Think of all the money problems the Gosselins could solve if they would get rid of the body guards. Mr. Gray, Mr. Black and Mr. Big have to be very expensive. Wonder who is paying for all that? One could almost see paparazzi and body guards/security working together to bilk "stars" out of cash by getting in their heads. Wonder if Mr. Gray worked on Kate's head? He's been traveling with her...what? Over 6 months?

Protect8 said...

When I heard about the PA investigation I felt proud to be part of a group of people here on GWOP whose primary concern has been the welfare of the Gosselin children. These are the people who have written letters to TLC, show sponsors such as Gap, Oprah, Larry King, Dr. Phil, the state of PA and many more. Though it took scandalous headlines for a lot of folks out there to learn about the Gossselins and the mistreatment of the children, GWOP has been on it for a long time.

While the tabloids focus a great deal on Kate's hair, how she dresses, alleged affairs and the possible divorce. they unfortunately have tended to ignore or gloss over the truly frightening part of the show - the emotional abuse of the children. And it is clear a lot of the talking heads on television that are all over the place have clearly not seen the evolution of the mistreatment of the children over the progression of the seasons.

Perhaps the PA investigation is just a first step but it is a step. And hopefully the not shown film footage can be looked at. And if it is looked at, then what Jodi and Kevin said about the abuse going on in the household might come to light.

I just want to say thank you very much to GWOP and all of you who went out of your way to speak up through emails and letters about the children's safety.

BarbMae said...

I think with the genre of all these reality t.v. multiple family shows it will be a nationwide initiative to protect the children in these multiple families in all 50 states. I agree that an on set advocate for each filming needs to be in place for each show. Thank you Thank You Thank You all bloggers on this website. This website has brought about everything that has happened these last 2 weeks in the media with only the 8 Gosselin childrens interest and safety in mind. The truth will set you free and IMHO the truth is going to set those wonderful 8 children free. God Bless everyone on this site because the powers that be are seeing what we have seen the last two years of exploitation of these innocent children. The end is near and the Gosselin children will be set free, loved by extended family, and can become "normal" children. Let Mom and Dad do their "work" and let the kids be kids. God's love is leading this site and our concern for these innocent children will set them free.

AnotherLisa said...

Let the investigations begin!

Thank you Kevin and Jodi, you were instrumental in this!!!

At least the world is beginning to recognize that the children were working when they were being filmed.

The kids need to be protected. And future tuplets will benefit

thehazlettfamily said...

BastaAlready said...

Pennsylvania/Table of Child Entertainment Provisions

Yes: (State regulates child entertainment)

Yes: work permit needed-Minors 7 to under 18 need special permits from Dept. of Labor and Industry, and can’t work where there is alcohol.

To obtain special permits need: application signed by parent and employer, and with the seal of notary. Includes provisions for educational instruction, supervision, health, welfare, and the safeguarding and conservation for the minor of the monies derived from such performances

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/state/childentertain.htm

Hopefully, these kids will be recognized as "entertainers".
******************************
Also, the school issues the permit. At least for a normal work permit. I don't know if it needs to be reissued at intervals or not as my daughter got hers at 16. If it does, maybe the school can refuse to reissue one. And once the tups are 7, the school can refuse to issue one. And before you mention homeschooling, my daughter is homeschooled but her local school district had to issue the permit for her to work.

***********************************

MelissaLG said...

I think the key will be are the children "working"? If the state believes the children are at work when being filmed, then child labor laws apply, and TLC will have to make serious changes to comply.

Kate (of course) will claim that the children are not working, but simply going about their day to day business, with someone making a video, much the way a parent does. A child is not working at a birthday party, simply b/c an adult chooses to take a video to memorialize the event.

The main problem for Kate and this "their not working" argument is this: Kate repeatedly refers to her time on the show as "work" does she not? Why would something she views as work, be viewed any differently by a child?

If it is not "work" -- then why is TLC compensating the parents for the childrens' time?

If the videos are just documentation of children living their lives, then why does TLC specifically arrange special trips and stage scenarios (Hawaii, Utah, art studios, Discovery chefs visiting, etc etc)where the children are required to be present? These scenes are manipulated and arranged, and the children react off-the-cuff to it, (much like improv actors do, in a way) But even though the reactions are genuine, they are none the less staged, manipulated, and required in order for the parents to receive compensation. It is thus WORK.

I am SO happy someone filed a complaint. I don't think that ALL reality TV kids would fall under child-labor laws. For instance, Denise Richard's children are only seen for a few minutes here and there. They are not the focus of the show, Denise is. The kids could not appear for an entire season, and it wouldn't matter. Denise is compensated for her work, not the kids'.

Anyway, that is one Texas lawyers cursory analysis!

doubleD said...

I wonder where TLC's home office is, what address is on the TLC checks that Kate cashes, and whether California's child labor laws and Coogan law couldn't be implemented, given the money and the contracts might both flow from CA rather than PA.
***********

They have an ethics hotline:
To contact the Ethics Hotline in the U.S. and Canada, please dial (800) 398-6395. That's on the Discovery Communications Corporate website.
From the site:
"Discovery is committed to managing its business activities in full compliance with all applicable laws and regulations and to ensuring honest and ethical behavior by its directors, officers, employees and contingent workers."

Also, if you want PA labor laws to be changed to protect children in these types of situations, I'd suggest writing the various state and federal representatives and Senators and urge them to draft legislation that includes reality tv. I'm sure when the original laws were written, reality tv wasn't on the radar.

I would urge everyone to contact their own state's reps and senators as well. They may not be able to do anything about PA's laws, but you can help protect children in your own state.

Cordelia said...

I've never watched this show until Kate became the cover story in Us Weekly. I did however work with people who are, or were, fans of this show. I'm a pediatric RN so I am very aware of the consequences of child exploitation and emotional abuse.

I finally watched a portion of the show few days ago, I couldn't even watch the entire show. Beyond all the contrivances and Kate's self-aggrandizement, the show is in itself damaging to the emotional development of the children. The cameras and public attention do nothing but hinder the proper development of sense of self. I fear more for the older twins, as they will carry more of the psychological burdens once the show ceases production.

Hopefully, this investigation will open up a Pandora's Box and shut down any future child-exploitation- for- profit reality shows such as the one that Octomom is currently peddling around.

I

naomi said...

NahnCee said...

I wonder where TLC's home office is, what address is on the TLC checks that Kate cashes, and whether California's child labor laws and Coogan law couldn't be implemented, given the money and the contracts might both flow from CA rather than PA.
5/29/2009 3:53 PM
NahnCee,

TLC is owned by Discovery Communications, Inc.

Discovery Communications, Inc. World Headquarters
One Discovery Place
Silver Spring, MD 20910
Tel: 240.662.2000

pinkdiamond611 said...

The State of PA is turning the screws on Kon and TLC, finally. No matter the outcome, Kon and TLC will have to fork over huge legal bills now. Maybe they can reach a settlement, and stop filming and the case will be closed.

Merry said...

I always enjoyed watching programs from TLC,Discovery ect.Foolishly I felt that ratings were not part of the agenda.I have written to them and their sponsors.I will not watch nor will I buy from company's that support this show.I plan on doing alot of reading this summer

SundayRose said...

MAGNIFICENT news on the investigation of the Gosselins!!

As far as Jon's mother speaking out....it's a start anyway. Maybe if given another opportunity, she can tell how Kate did not even allow Jon to spend time with his own brothers after their father's funeral. Kate said NO! She just could not handle the kids on her own for even a few short hours. Very disturbing indeed.

I read that Kate had alienated Jon from his own brothers and that she dislikes his mom as well. What is it with Kate and her banishment of family members?!

4theKids said...

I think it will be quite easy to show the kids were working.
Why?
Because everyone surround them was and getting paid for it.
There are receipts and paystubs.

When you look at the pictures of the film crew, (not from TLC, of course, but from the "evil" paps - thank you paps), it shows about 10 other people.
If J&K and the half-dozen camera guys and sound guys and lighting guys and tech guys and production assistants, and nannies and cooks and ALL those people are getting paid WHILE the kids are being filmed -- well -- that's WORK.

TLC, as much as they try to LIE about what's really going on, have way too many facts to the contrary left in their wake.

If 15-20 people are getting paid - it's work.
This is a no-brainer.

VB Mom of 2 Boys said...

It's a shame that Oprah and Dr. Phil's shows seem to have started its summer hiatus just as this story is breaking. Considering that they have had the family on their shows on multiple occasions, I wonder how they would have handled this current controversy or if they would have ignored it.

goawayJandK said...

MelissaLG:

Many good points - the PA Dept of Labor need only watch one or two episodes to see that the children are indeed working.

Another example : how many times have the kids had to say upon being prompted :

"ON THIS EPISODE OF JON AND KATE PLUS 8"

Sal E. said...

What happens if everything is found to be legal and in place as far as the Pa. Labor law goes? What then? I think it will propel TLC and Jon and Kate plus 8 into the stratosphere. Their ratings will soar again and no one will be able to stop them because they will have been found to be doing nothing unethical. What a nightmare.

readerlady said...

WOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! And thank you and God Bless you, Kevin and Jodi for having the courage and the integrity to come forward with your concerns. I'm sure that this was the impetus for the Department of Labor investigation!

Even if the investigation doesn't find any violations, at least more scrutiny will be given to the Gosselin 8 and to all children who are involved in "reality" programming.

Re the possibility of charges being brought against TLC for not reporting child abuse - film crews aren't mandated reporters, so I doubt that anything could be done, if abuse is found to be documented. They may be morally responsible, but legally - no.

I'm Francie - Mady Gosselin takes violin lessons and I think Cara plays soccer (I may be wrong about that one). Cara was taking piano lessons, but she quit after a short time.

Just some ramblings here - someone mentioned child pornography for all the times the kids were shown in states of undress. Some years ago an Ohio mother was charged with and tried for child pornography for snapping a picture of her young daughter rinsing off in the shower. She was turned in by someone at the store where she took the pictures for development. There was no intent to distribute or anything like that, it was intended just as a family snapshot. My own personal opinion is that most of this was because the mother was a lesbian, but that's neither here nor there. I don't remember the final outcome of the case - I think she was convicted but it was later overturned - but that definitely sets a precedent here.

The old home had permanent studio lighting installed, so a good case for it being a "set" could be made, IMO. And how many times were the twins, particularly, required to do something that they might not ordinarily do in order to provide a photo op? So - again IMO - a case could be made for the kids being "actors" as well as "just living their lives".

The foot is in the door, now lets keep up the pressure!

teffi said...

What happens if everything is found to be legal and in place as far as the Pa. Labor law goes? What then? I think it will propel TLC and Jon and Kate plus 8 into the stratosphere. Their ratings will soar again and no one will be able to stop them because they will have been found to be doing nothing unethical. What a nightmare.



IMO, I think that if there are no laws currently being broken that it will lead to new laws being created to protect the next kids. The Gosselin 8 might not be saved, but the next generation of reality tv kids could be.

thehazlettfamily said...

Anonymous pinkdiamond611 said...

The State of PA is turning the screws on Kon and TLC, finally. No matter the outcome, Kon and TLC will have to fork over huge legal bills now. Maybe they can reach a settlement, and stop filming and the case will be closed.
*******************************
I agree, but, Kate will probably say that now she HAS to continue with the show to pay the legal bills.

Also, Figure 8 films the shows and sells it to TLC. Figure 8 is located in North Carolina. Figure 8 is who Jen, Scott, Bill, etc. work for, not TLC.

Contact info:
307 W. Weaver St. Carrboro, NC 27510
Voice: (919) 933-3553
Fax: (919) 933-3613
email: viewermail@figure8films.tv

Serena said...

What happens if everything is found to be legal and in place as far as the Pa. Labor law goes?

Then that will further underscore the need for appropriate laws.

Chances are that they will be found compliant, revealing how vulnerable Pennsylvania children are and why we have travesties like what is being perpetuated upon the Gosselin children.

Remember that the point isn't only to investigate whether or not they are compliant, but whether or not the laws have caught up with the current trend of pimping children out to reality TV.

Anonymous said...

I think sometimes the kids are told what to say, such as in the premiere Collin goes up to Kate and thanks her for the party. Kate then makes a point to say which kids thanked her, a dig I think to Jon because he didn't help her and needed time off. Additionally, I think Jon was told to ask Alexis if she missed him, garnering a heart-tugging response stating she didn't want him to leave again.

I believe the producers or writers purposely set up a scenario where the kids are emotionally manipulated. I think a case could be made for emotional abuse or at least a risk of with the PA child protection authorities.

Expositor said...

Are there are rules from taking scriptures right out of the bible and publishing them like Kate did with 8 Little Faces?

It depends on which version of the bible she used.


You can quote the KJV for free.

All the other versions are copyrighted, and they usually give permission to be quoted, but it could be checked out if someone has a copy of the book.

Since her publisher was Zondervan, I bet all their i's are dotted and t's crossed.

Naj said...

The investigation alone will put another nail in the fan coffin.

For every "I'm a Fan!" post I see, anywhere on the web I see 4 stating they wish that J&K would focus on their family and work on their marriage. There are another 4 stating they wish they'd divorce and vanish from the face of the earth.

I forsee the show ending. Slowly, but ending.

Milehimama said...

Also, at the old house, TLC had installed production lights in most of the rooms in the house. Kate made a point of noting how glad she was to see them removed, even if it was so they could sell the house.

There were very many episodes showing the Gosselin children in their beds/cribs in the first couple of seasons. I don't know if the cameras were INSTALLED, but they were PRESENT. Remember the cleaning lady episode, the shots of Joel climbing into his crib for a nap, and one of the girls having an accident in her bed?

There were also cameras in the bathroom.

umsami said...

It was really interesting watching the Paul Peterson/Showbiz Tonight piece. TLC claims that the kids are only filmed two hours per day, two days per week. I guess they don't listed to Jon & Kate who have said that cameras are there "only three days" per week. Just subpoening all of the massive film (or talking to Mady and Cara) will let the truth come out.

Tell me... can you even get enough footage in four hours per week to cut-down to a 1/2 hour show? I don't think so. http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/archive/2009/05/14/jon-and-kate-gosselin-talk-exclusively-to-ew.aspx

"KATE: We film an average of three days. Sometimes they're here all day, or just two hours."

Pat said...

nana2

Didn't I just read that TLC was looking for an apartment for Jon that was 'camera ready' ? So wouldn't that mean that his home is actually a 'television shooting set' as opposed to a home where children just play and do things naturally without a script ?

Diane said...

I remember the episode when Jon took Cara and the boys to the Phillie's baseball game. It appeared (correct me if I'm wrong), that the family arrived before the game started...I don't think many fans had arrived yet. Then the kids sat through the entire game, and were clearly exhausted by time it was finished. But they had to stay to meet players after the game and for some photo shoot.

I remember that one of the boys (Aaden?) was very tired and the owner's wife held him in her lap....Jon and Kate really made fun of him for enjoying being 'babied'. Jon made the point on the air that the kids were tired, but they had to stick around for some reason.

I do think that is a good example of the kids having to 'work', and were filmed for far more than 2 hours. If they arrived at the park before the game and stayed afterwards (I believe I remember a clock showing it was 11:00 p.m.), then they probably put in an 8 hour day, if you count the time from when they first left their house.

I do think other episodes could be torn apart to determine times when the kids were clearly 'working' and not just being filmed doing their own activities.

Ravello said...

I'm thrilled PA is looking into the child labor issues. The cameras must be removed from these dear children's faces.
TLC has not shown any corporate responsibility so far. Is there any level of embarassing news that would lead them to cancel the show?
I'm sure Kate is worried sick that the show will not go on. She cares more about the show than she does about her kids.

Anonymous said...

I've read multiple legal opinions and there are no laws that protect children being filmed being themselves. There is nothing for this investigative body to actually investigate.

The answer is to pass new laws. By the time that actually happens, if it actually happens, the Gosselin children will be adults.

silimom said...

ImFrancie said...
I've never seen the twins do anything typical for their age: sports teams, music lessons, dance, day camps, or even homework! Maybe they do some of these things off-camera, whenever THAT might be, but it is certainly not what is shown on TV. I guess I would not object if someone gave them a big 'ol Steinway and piano lessons.

********
Someone DID donate a piano to them. There was a whole episode on how the girls were going to take violin and piano lessons (can't remember which girl went with which instrument). Than nothing musical was ever heard from either one again.

I think it was Kate herself, when they were getting ready to move, who said that the girls wouldn't practice so after 2 -3 weeks, they stopped lessons. The piano was left at the old house - it was still there when they went back to clean it out. From what I remember, I heard they either gave it away or sold it.

As for the labor laws -

I'm sure they will be found compliant, although you never know. If there's enough of a media and audience uproar, then the fact that the laws are vague could work against them, in that it gives the state a lot more flexibility in how they interpret those current laws. At least that's MHO

Annies said...

Nothing will come out of this here in PA. Tom Corbett already made comments that they are "just little Kids" I guess he is a fan. It will take a long battle to fight to institute new laws but the guilty parties can always move to yet another State without child protection.

DisillusionedFormerViewer said...

I truly hope the PA Department of Labor makes a thorough investigation.

I also hope that's not the only investigation.

The ponzi scheme for donations needs to be investigated by both state and federal authorities.

I believe each of the children should have been receiving a set percentage of the funds from each episode from the beginning. Those funds should have been placed in a trust that is administered by a neutral party, definitely not by Kate.

A thorough investigation of the children's situation, complete with guardian(s) ad litem, should also be done.

iggy726 said...

I read last week's People article today and was taken back by a comment that Kate made. I do not have the article available and cannot quote exactly, but it said something like "When I am filming, nothing else matters." Even though not much about Kate Gosselin surprises me, this comment floored me - that she would even say it out loud!

lindahoyt said...

Oh,oh Nahncee! YOU ARE CLEVER!!

But sadly the headquarters for Discovery Communications is in, guess what? Maryland...home state of Steve Neild.

What are the laws in MD?

shmedelle said...

readerlady said

Just some ramblings here - someone mentioned child pornography for all the times the kids were shown in states of undress. Some years ago an Ohio mother was charged with and tried for child pornography for snapping a picture of her young daughter rinsing off in the shower. She was turned in by someone at the store where she took the pictures for development. There was no intent to distribute or anything like that, it was intended just as a family snapshot. My own personal opinion is that most of this was because the mother was a lesbian, but that's neither here nor there. I don't remember the final outcome of the case - I think she was convicted but it was later overturned - but that definitely sets a precedent here.

.........

I'm from Ohio too and I remember that. I recall that her argument was that the photos were "artistic" and, therfore innocent. At the time, I was on her side but, I was a teen-ager then and was unaware that child pornography existed. I have kids now. A couple of years ago I was at a public pool with my kids and I saw something that instantly gave me a funny feeling. I saw a man with a very expensive camera, one with a long lens, taking pictures of a group of kids playing in the sandbox in their swimsuits. He caught my eye because it was apparent that he was by himself and moving quickly to take pictures. He had nothing with him that indicated he was there to swim, or that he was a parent to any of the kids. He talked to no one. My first thought was that he was with the local newspaper. Next, I thought something is not right. (This all happened in a matter of maybe two minutes.) As soon as my instinct kicked in, I quickly found the nearest lifegaurd and asked if he was with the newspaper. As soon as the lifegaurd said "I don't know but your not the first person to ask about this guy". (This guy had been to the pool before.)I turned to locate the perv...and he was gone! I have always regretted not calling the police. This guy knew exactly how to slip in, take a bunch of, probably crotch-shots, and disappear.
Jon and Kate may be very niave, but I think not. They choose to ignore the fact that some have a sick interest in their kids because they, like Aunt Jodie said, choose money and fame over their children's best interest.

lindahoyt said...

The kids, at the minimum are models. They pose long hours for photos for show promotionals, as well as for magazine articles.

TLC has also produced "Music Videos" of the family; as well as shooting scenes for the opening and promotion of the show. The "it's a beautiful life", shot at Beth and Bobs. How many times did the kids have to run down the hill?

Jon complains that he "can't be Jon"...but fails to recognise that he kids "can't" learn who Cara, Mady, Alexis, Collin, Aaden, Joel, Hannah or Leah are! They have no chance to figure out who they are with their privacy stolen from them. To have their children's blossoming discovery of their own sexuality broadcast for everyone's entertainment...is so horrifying.

It was cute, when Joel said he had a "weiner"; and when one of the little girls asked about the size of girls "boops"; but I wouldn't have wanted MY personal realisations broadcast for all the world's perverts and sickos to hear!

Brian said...

I've read multiple legal opinions and there are no laws that protect children being filmed being themselves. There is nothing for this investigative body to actually investigate.

The answer is to pass new laws. By the time that actually happens, if it actually happens, the Gosselin children will be adults.

___________

I have heard other legal experts say that it is not so cut and dry.

The question is not whether the children are "being themselves." The question is whether they are "performers" or in other words, working for TLC.

And if the Gosselin children are considered to be working, PA child labor laws do protect them.

Frankly, I don't see how any objective investigator could look at the hours and hours of footage taken of those kids, in the most private, embarrassing situations, and not consider their contributions "work."

Besides, arguably no child can be himself or herself with a camera crew, glaring lights, a producer, following him or her around constantly. I mean, for goodness sake, Kate even permitted those poor children to be filmed on the potty! Do you realize how mortifying that will be to them in a few years?

And as noted by many, TLC's claim that they limit camera time with the kids is BS. Their own shows show it!

They show "a day in the feaux reality life" almost every week! The baseball game noted above is a great example. The Hawaii wedding, that was pretty much an all day event too. Remember the ski trip where the kids had to go on that sleigh ride thing at night, even though they were exhausted and cranky? How many times has that happened!

They may not be filming the children non-stop, but they are there, the children are "on-call", and the entire story is usually geared around some TLC planned, staged entertainment to elicit and record the childrens' reactions.

If the state ignores this, I guarantee you TLC won't. They have to be careful in every single state they drag those children to for filming. I bet their legal department is flipping out!

momof5 said...

No minor under sixteen years of age shall be employed or permitted to work in, about, or in connection with, any establishment or in any occupation before seven o'clock in the morning or after seven o'clock in the evening of any day except during school vacation period from June to Labor Day when such minor may work between the hours of seven o'clock in the morning and ten o'clock in the evening nor shall such minor who is enrolled in school and working outside school hours be employed or permitted to work in, about, or in connection with, any establishment or in any occupation more than four hours on a school day, or more than eight hours on any other day, or more than eighteen hours during a school week: Provided, That, students fourteen years of age and over whose employment is part of a recognized school-work program, supervised by a recognized school authority, may be employed for hours which, combined with the hours spent in school, do not exceed eight a day:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is the part I hope PA gets em on. Could also be why Kate is delaying kindergarten.

Amy In CA said...

Like others I recommend that we ALL voice our concerns to everyone in goverment that we can think of, not just in PA but every state (ie NJ where Table for 12, and AR where the Duggers are filmed). We need to protect every child from their parents pimping them out in the name of "entertainment".

Just my thoughts

met said...

my personal opinion is that all these reality shows that show children should be banned(yes that's the Duggars and Table for 12...the latter I think is in it for the $. I know everyone thinks they are great, but anyone who puts their children on TV in that reality is truly vile in my book) The children at that young of age don't have a voice.

I assume some young children enjoy acting and there are many rules and regulations in place to protect them on REAL television. Those children have to have ACTUAL talent, not being born part of a litter.

If laws aren't in place there are going to be more Octomoms out there. The only reason TLC didn't pick her up was because she wasn't married and never has been.


s

lindahoyt said...

Kate counted personal appearances and interviews as part of her "hardest job ever"....gosh, the little kids do that part of the job as well, don't they? I have seen them on several shows, being interviewed.

Mom of 5 kids said...

the knowledge that they are being filmed CHANGES WHO THEY ARE. Everyone, including small children, adjusts their behavior when they are being filmed.Isn't that the truth? My husband had our camera in his hands earlier today as I was holding our 7 month old daughter...and I noticed that all of a sudden she had a HUGE smile on her face and was leaning toward my husband.

I commented to my husband "look, Sophie is already acting for the camera!" The child doesn't even have a concept yet of photography...but she connects that shiny little box with people cajoling her to smile!

NDmom said...

Halleluia!

Too bad Jon and Kate can't be trusted to protect their own precious children and that the PA Department of Labor must investigate. As for me, my mothering instincts and protecting nature would cause me to pull my kids close and tell everyone else to mind their own business. Oh wait. I guess Kate tries to do that except when she is getting paid.

WomanMother said...

The one thing that struck me was how Kate said she was doing her "job" that's why she's away so much and justified her at the spa or interviewing with People on her childrens birthday. I envisioned the collective groans amongst many at how her job NOW suddenly shifted from its original "Stay at Home Mom" that was the shows premise.

She forgot that the initial appeal was for the audience to watch HER handle her everyday life with the kids in that fun, sweatpant wearing laugh at yourself fashion far from the diva entitled attitude so prevalent in her now.

That 'job' comment alone should have warranted cancellation. Seriously.

a bit bookish said...

May Day:

Are there are rules from taking scriptures right out of the bible and publishing them like Kate did with 8 Little Faces? Is any "citing" required for using bible verses? I know when I did my thesis APA style, we had to cite everything little thing that was not my own words. What about Kate and her scriptures verses? Apparently someone else wrote them. How does she get away with it all?

------------------------

Many older books, most likely including the Bible, are public domain at this point. I don't know a whole lot about copyright law but I'm fairly certain that it is unlikely she's broken any laws in this case.

Willow #1 said...

To the mods and fellow posters - Remember when we were SO excited that that reporter was going to put something in a magazine that would hopefully just ask a question? We waited patiently for it to come out and were so thrilled that somebody finally wrote something. That was ONE of the beginnings of trying to get help for the kids. With constant letter-writing and boycotting, etc., etc., etc., we may see something happen now. Great job guys!!! (I have even prayed for those kids). Kevin, Jodi and Julie - you rock and kudos upon kudos to GWOPers and everyone who listened to us complain!!! Hooray for the kids!!

New Show featuring Jon&8 said...

I just read where there is a new show replacing J&K plus 8.

It's called "I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Outta Here" and will be starring Jon Gosselin, featuring his 8 children.

Contrary to rumors and popular believe, it will NOT be staged in a jungle somewhere in the Caribbean, but on a KONpound somewhere in the far reaches of Berks County, PA on TLC.

Part of the show will feature Jon and the children held captive inside a tiny box called a TV
with the gatekeepers, otherwise known as Kate and TLC, controlling their fate.

Sarah said...

This could be stretching it, and please tell me if you think this is out of line. I've heard of people being arrested on child porn charges for simply developing film of their children's first bath, and things of that sort. So how in the world do they get away with broadcasting the children naked? Aren't their child porn laws that would prohibit this?

I posted the idea on TMZ that Children need dignity, and that broadcasting them nude, and going to the bathroom steals their dignity. Can you believe someone said that children are unaware of the need for dignity?? Then both of our comments were deleted...lol!

I've heard it often that vulnerability can create a false sense of connection. I wonder if the vulnerable state of the children causes some "fans" to believe they have a connection to the kids. the whole "we've watched them grow up" thing. Creepy!

Anonymomma said...

I'm not as much worried about who will look out for the kids if the cameras are off, as I am about who won't be looking out for them if the cameras are off. We know they have teachers and friends at school. And at least one of them has no issue with spillig the beans on her two jokes of parents.

I am more concerned about how much longer the kids will end up being endentured serveants (ie.bringing them to speaking engagements because it wont consitutue as filming but still bring in money), if the TLC freak show comes to any sort of halt. Kate will make damn sure that if she's making 75k a week now, so will she even if their hours are cut back.

Without a legal guardian appointented by the court, the kids have no chance at not working. One way or another Kate will squeeze every single dime she can out of their 'eight little faces'.

Anonymous said...

I have been frustrated with the media coverage of J&K + 8. Nobody - from Entertainment news to more 'real' news shows like the network morning shows are ignoring the elephant in the room i.e. that the core issue to the deterioration of this family has been that every thing they do is filmed and the subsequent financial compensation has corrupted the parents and take their eye off their core job; parenting. As much as we need to pressure government we need to get the media to start asking the right questions - including less focus on J&K and more on the children and what impact of the constant TLC cameras and now the paparazzi are on the children.

As an aside, I remember being upset about something when I was 7 (we were on a family road trip) and as I was crying my father pulled out his camera to zoom in on how upset I was. I felt so betrayed that he used this opportunity to capture it on film rather than intuitively comfort me. What do those kids think when they act up or get upset in front of adults i.e. the camerman, lighting, sound guy etc. yet these adults or 'friends' as Kate calls them do not take on the natural role of the adult and comfort these kids. How confusing this must be for them.

I would have hoped that TLC would be morally obligated to give the show a time out instead of pursuing ratings at the expense of the demise of a family. I know Kate is a piece of work but TLC must also be held accountable.

Dianne said...

I'm sure TLC is thrilled about the ratings, but it has gotten to the point where these children really are being exploited. This is their parents and their life. No matter how one feels about Jon or Kate or who did what and when, it should be about the kids at this point (and not the way Kate means it, IMO).

I have a suggestion. I think those who want to see J&K+8 cancelled should send TLC a postcard (snail mail, put some effort, money, and time into your opinion, it means more) that simply says something like "it's time to cancel this show because it's in the best interest of the children."

Anonymomma said...

This isn't going to get brushed under the rug. Think about it. Octomom. Everyone loathes that woman for essentially copying Kate Gosselin's idea. If they are going after Octomom, they are going to have to go after K8. She is the original Octomom.

overwithKON said...

Quote from Paul Peterson "It is not our job to raise famous chilren, it is our jb to raise successfull adults!"

Wow what a powerfull statement! I just watched the interview he did and he is a great advocate, I think this run away train is going to crash, lets just hope the kids have on their seatbelt! =0)

kan said...

In the puppy episode, the camera man is taping one of the dogs and Joel says, "he doesn't like being interviewed." Obviously the kids are getting constantly "interviewed" (not just on the chair, which should be enough right there to prove "work"). And how in the world is that part of a childs regular life? What 4 year old knows about interviews period?

And like others have mentioned....if the show is jon and kate's work, their "business," their career, and their only job....how can they claim it's not ONE of those things for any of their 8 kids?

kate is a cocky bitch said...

frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was all a rouse cooked up by some yellow journalist. Yes, I am sure they are being investigated. But who filed the report? And doesn't anyone else find it odd that of all news agencies (and I use that term very, very loosely) TMZ broke the story? IMO doing things for the sake of sensation is not going to change anything and I think it will only add more trauma to the children because it's making the entire situation an even bigger circus. I hope the children will be safe and I hope their crazy parents will come back down to earth but until then it seems like there is very little that can be done, investigation or not. And that's really the bottom line unfortunately.

NahnCee said...

I think concern about Kate trying to resume her role as full-time mother after she becomes fired as reality TV star is warranted. We know she thinks absolutely nothing of swatting Jon, calling them "love pats".

If there aren't cameras and outsiders around watching, in her frustration and anger at having lost a lucrative "career", how hot will she make the bath water, how hard will she run the hairbrush across the little head, how tightly will she grasp and yank the little arm?

Vancouver Sun Latest said...

that Vancouver Sun is at it again!
Keeping the heat on.
Do you suppose it has something to do with the Dionne Quints?
I truly admire their journalistic tenacity!
(and have told them so)

Gotta love the headline:

"Jon & Kate plus investigate?"

(hee-hee! this is NOT a laughing matter, but sometimes when things are so bad u need a little comic relief - and i appreciate creativity!)

link: http://www.vancouversun.com/Entertainment/Kate+plus+investigate/1644812/story.html

Jackie said...

Op-ed piece in the NY Times.
Has some facts wrong (what else is new?).
I did let her know (not to worry Kevin and Jody - we know you have only the children's best interest at heart <3 ).

But still, good to see coverage continuing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/30/opinion/30collins.html?hpw

New Product Endorsement said...

New Product Endorsement for Jon & Kate plus 8 just announced!

This is a Blockbuster deal that is sure to "soak" up millions for the struggling Gosselin clan.

I am proud to announce that I personally negotiated this multi-million dollar, lifetime guaranteed contract for the family (so long as they continue to call their staged and fake life a "reality")

(drum roll please)...
The are now the official spokespeople for "Sham-WOW!"

Talk about perfect product placement....am I right? ;)

(they got rid of the guy who was caught out drinking with a.... oh wait...that was Jon!! heh-heh!)

Mommy of Two said...

Kate will be sticking close to her kids now, pretending to be kind to them, manipulating them. They will seek her approval always and do whatever mommy wants.

As soon as no-one's looking or the kids no longer needed for her career, she will mock and humiliate them again. Narcissists are very good at such manipulation. I feel sorry for all the kids, esp. Joel, Collin, Cara and Maddie.

Uh, No said...

5/29/2009 1:16 PM
OpenID lindahoyt said...

I believe that the footage will show physical and mental abuse by Kate Gosselin. And could result in charges against the production company for not turning the abuse into the child protective services!

---

Production companies are not mandated reporters. The production company cannot be charged for not reporting alleged child abuse.

Huh? said...

5/29/2009 2:31 PM
Anonymous Jennifer D said...

From the article:

"Jon & Kate Plus 8" tapes off and on throughout the year, averaging two to three hours a day, two to three days a week, Goldberg said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is an attorney speaking and we need to carefully read between the lines. The word AVERAGING is the key. If they add up all the days and hours they tape and then divide by 365 days a year it probably does add up to 2-3 hours per day.

Let's play with that number. Meet them in the middle and let's go with 2.5 hours per day.

2.5 hours x 365 days= 912.5 hours (per year)

912.5 hours divided between 40 episodes equals 22.81 or 23 hours to make the math easy.

So that is 23 hours per episode. i am assuming that they are taping on episode per week. According to KON they are taping 3 days a week. That means they are taping for an about 8 hours each day.

This is all total speculation, of course, but I think I am pretty close to the truth.

---

The basic premise of your argument is faulty. TLC did not say they average 2 to 3 hours per day. They said they average 2 to 3 hours per day, 2-3 days per week. Therefore, you can't start off by multiplying 2.5 hours x 365 days per year as TLC did not claim that they film 2-3 hours average, per day.

Michael said...

2-3 weeks isn't long enough for any kid to take to (or not take to) music. A kid can't really even learn how to practice without quite a few lessons, certainly more than 2-3.

Ihave8 said...

I just want to gather those kids up and bring them home with me.
Of course thier clothes won't match and they might get dirty while they play outside and they might not know how to eat homeade Lasanga without a bib or sippy cup, they would surely, without a doubt, know they were loved for just being them.

Ihave8 said...

I guess it doesn't really matter at this point. The very, very precious toddler years are just gone. I take that back. It does matter, but, it's still gone.

Ihave8 said...

What about the show where little Collin was made to sit on the potty for 1/2 hour before he could eat his lunch?????
Cause ya know, if they don't potty before eating, they'll pee in thier high chair and Kate will have to clean up. TLC actually had a timer running for that one.

imaamy said...

My daughter watched part of an old episode and said, "wow, why does she hit him so much?" Watching all the old ones as I've been lately, I can't believe J lasted that long with her. Really bothers me to hear they go thru 1300 paper plates every few months. They shouldn't repeat the Gosselins Go Green episode anymore!

Maude said...

readerlady said:
My own personal opinion is that most of this was because the mother was a lesbian, but that's neither here nor there.

-----------------------------------

OMG, please tell me you mean that she was ACCUSED because she was gay? Not that she took the photos because she's gay! I just got confused, right?

Rebecca said...

Everything that goes up, must come down.

This show, no matter how this 'investigation' goes, will end. It is just a matter of time. Ratings can't stay high forever, and it is all about ratings for TLC.

thelyingchannel said...

From the article:

"Jon & Kate Plus 8" tapes off and on throughout the year, averaging two to three hours a day, two to three days a week, Goldberg said.

How can TLC even claim this to be true when over the past year plus they have been pumping out more and more episodes per 'season'.
The season premiere alone was over an hour long and consisted of EDITTED footage filmed just weeks prior to airing. I dont believe for one minute that the episodes leading up to the vow renewal of last year , that on the clock filming consisted of merely 2-3 hours per day, 2-3 days per week!
The first season of J & K + 8 consisted of what? 8-9 episodes? Now TLC is pumping out triple amount plus the amount of episodes per season. TLC =The Lying Channel.

Johanna said...

I hope the Department of Labor considers the countless interviews and photoshoots these children have been subjected to. I dare anybody to watch the Good Housekeeping episode and claim the Gosselin children have not been working.
That is NOT just normal, everyday life for kids!

ImFrancie said...

Thanks to those who provided details about the twins activities. I did not see the episode about the piano, a freebie of course, as I have never been a regular viewer, only catching parts of episodes when my daughter was tuning in. To me the show has always seemed like walking into a really bad daycare with all the whining, screaming, and hitting, not to mention the kids' meltdowns.

It's so sad that the piano and lessons were merely props for yet another contrived scenario, one featuring the twins. Just more evidence of the show's phoniness, and Kate's too. Remember all her noise about "culturing" the kids?

It's also a shame that the piano was left at the old house. No doubt J&K were hoping to "score" a bigger and better one. (Apologies for the bad pun!)

just wondering said...

Mommy of Two said...
Kate will be sticking close to her kids now, pretending to be kind to them, manipulating them. They will seek her approval always and do whatever mommy wants.

As soon as no-one's looking or the kids no longer needed for her career, she will mock and humiliate them again. Narcissists are very good at such manipulation. I feel sorry for all the kids, esp. Joel, Collin, Cara and Maddie.

**********************************

Don't forget Hannah. She identifies with Kate and mirrors her.

just wondering said...

Michael said...
2-3 weeks isn't long enough for any kid to take to (or not take to) music. A kid can't really even learn how to practice without quite a few lessons, certainly more than 2-3.

**********************************

The music lessons were merely the premise for a show. Kate "does not believe in making a child practice every day."

Sort of like their vow renewal was just a premise for the show. They wanted a trip to Hawaii and the show wanted them to renew their vows.

Moons in Leo said...

Granted, it's only a start, but without this blog I doubt even an investigation would have been forthcoming.

Just want to take the opportunity to say you moderators ROCK. Without you I am sure absolutely nothing would have been done. Ever.

FancyNancy said...

I just made a $20 donation to a Minor Consideration. It's not much, but it's what I could could spare this month. Plus, if God loves me as much as He loves Kate, I will instantly get a $20 gift card in the mail, right? Anyhow, in this case, it feels good to put my money where my mouth is.

Kim in Berks County said...

In today's Reading Eagle...


State checking 'Jon & Kate' over child labor laws


Is family's Lower Heidelberg house a home or a TV show set?
The Associated Press


In a cold dose of reality for reality TV, Pennsylvania's Labor Department has opened an investigation into whether the hit show "Jon & Kate Plus 8" is complying with state child labor laws.

The TLC series about two parents raising 8-year-old twins and 5-year-old sextuplets drew nearly 10 million viewers for its fifth-season premiere Monday following media reports that the parents, Jon and Kate Gosselin, had cheated on each other.

They denied it but conceded their marriage is in trouble.

TLC said Friday that it fully complies with state laws and regulations.

The Labor Department received a complaint against the show, department spokesman Justin Fleming said. Fleming would not say when the complaint was filed or who filed it.

The fact that a complaint is being investigated doesn't necessarily mean the department believes the show did anything wrong.

"Any complaint we get, we investigate," Fleming said.

Pennsylvania labor law protects child actors and other young performers, but it's unclear whether the law applies to reality TV.

Investigators will have to decide whether the Gosselins' house in Lower Heidelberg Township is essentially a TV set where producers direct much of the action - in which case the law may apply - or if it's a home where the children aren't working but are simply living their lives, albeit in front of cameras.

Kate's brother and sister-in-law made waves this week by saying the Gosselins are exploiting their children for financial gain. Jon and Kate Gosselin are reportedly paid tens of thousands of dollars per episode.

"Unfortunately, I think it has come down to all about the ratings," sister-in-law Jodi Kreider told CBS' "The Early Show." "And no one is looking at these children as what they are going through and the life consequences they are going to have as they get older."

Kreider said the children have told her they don't like the cameras.

Her husband and Kate's brother, Kevin Kreider, said in the same interview: "You can't imagine as a child realizing that my birthday party, that all the outings that my parents took me on were ... for ratings, and all organized by production companies."

"Jon & Kate" tapes off and on throughout the year, averaging two to three hours a day, two to three days a week, TLC said.

lindahoyt said...

I didn't watch the episodes that had to do with potty training.

Did she make him sit on the potty for a half an hour?!

I did see a clip where she puts him in his room, with the potty, turns off the light, and shuts the door. I saw where she pushed one of the girls in the toilet, turned off the light and shut the door as well.

Aren't there laws about not having cameras in the toilet?

I can not believe that they are actually going to publish the cook book and call it "love is in the mix"...making memories.

Those kids have precious few happy memories.

stunned said...

lindahoyt said..."I think the best we can hope for, like I said previously, is that the Dept. of Labor seizes all the unused video, in an attempt to see how long the family is taped..."
*****************************
Linda,

ITA. The authorities should subpoena Jen and the original film crew, whom Aunt Jody said told her they had to film several hours/day just to get a few hours of useable footage (due to all the spousal fighting).

Several PA agencies s/b looking at this case, at a minimum. But National laws are really needed.

Can't you just see Khate upping and moving the kids to NC or some other state that will "give her a free hand?"

Hope the show gets shut down and national laws passed.

Teacher Teacher said...

I agree that Jon and Kate should be investigated concerning the laws about working their kids. I also wonder why the Gosselins have not been investigated "educationally" about the time that Mady and Cara are out of school. It was reported that they were seen coming off a ferry boat in North Carolina this Wednesday. Weren't they suppose to be in school? School has not ended yet. I am confused at how these two girls can be out of school and there is not any repercussions for their absences. As an elementary school teacher, I would not like any of my students to be in and out of school at their parent's leisure. It is so disruptive to the children's learning as well as the entire classroom environment. If that were happening in my school the truant officer would be at their door.

nanasez said...

I didn't watch the episodes that had to do with potty training.

Did she make him sit on the potty for a half an hour?!

*****************

Yes. It was over half an hour. If I remember correctly, it was just shy of an hour. Something like 45 minutes.

losttouch said...

Are there any laws on the books concerning reality tv anywhere in the US?

They have traveled to Florida, New York, Illinois, Utah, California, Hawaii, North Carolina.

Other than Illinois, they were all extensively filmed.

Also, for the PA Dept of Labor, I would have to think that installing high voltage lights, special blinds, etc, would be considered turning your home into a film studio.

Mumsie said...

I've been reading this blog for two weeks and haven't posted until now. I'm in a unique position because I am a Law Guardian, or attorney for children, in NY state. FWIW, I also have five kids. I can't believe these kids don't have Law Guardians, or the PA equivalent, assigned to them- one for each.

Remember the episode where they got the blinds? I think that's the one where Kate says something like "I can't stand being under these lights all day! After a while I have to turn them off." Can you imagine being a kid, especially a preemie (with all of the possibilities for later problems that that entails), and having to hang out under those klieg lights all day? They must be out of their minds after a few hours- irritable to say the LEAST. Many studies have been done that show that fluorescent lights, such as in an office, create headaches, irritability- even their hum, barely audible to most, can drive others insane. I don't know if J&K's are fluorescent. I'm just trying to illustrate how hard it must be for these munchkins to concentrate.

Whether Mady is especially difficult we will never know. They may have edited things to give each kid a "personality"- the crazy one, the selfish one, the grumpy one, the easy one, the bully, the pooper- can you imagine if you were typecast that way as a child??????? On TV? And sorry, I would never let my kids haul off and whack each other the way these kids do. I would have had an all out war in my house. My kids are older now, and I'm definitely on the relaxed side of the parenting spectrum... but you have to have a zero tolerance policy for hitting when you have a lot of kids.

The fact that Kate throws down apple slices on paper plates doesn't bother me, nor does the fact that the kids are in matching clothes. There may be two very different "homes" depending on whether it's a filming day or not. When she went mental trying to scrub the gum out of the kids' clothes with peanut butter- it wasn't the clothes she cared about, it was her effort to smack down Jody on the air for giving them gum.

Look, I well remember when I was a SAHM with five little kids. Controlling? Of course. You have to be. You are in charge of a huge industry. You can't afford to just "let things happen" or things will get out of control very fast. You are always predicting what can go wrong and guarding against it with preparation and... control.

But I also remember saying "no" to a million things that I knew would throw everything into chaos. I knew when the kids had reached their limit and I would have them in the car, or the bath, or in front of the TV with a Barney video and a bottle (lol), or in bed before they got completely strung out. These people.... they have NO CONCERN for when their kids have had enough. Much has been written on here about the kids having to stay in the van while the shots are set up, or having to redo multiple takes. I remember the day they went to Crayola place (disaster). How about Jon's walk in the woods with the kids? Disaster. Anyone in their right mind would have turned around immediately.

These people have no concern, none. I'm sure they had no problem signing HIPPAA forms for the kids so we could follow them right into the pediatrician's office. Oh- how about when Jon was showering them, 3 at a time, and they kept saying "Daddy, I'm cold!!" Well, would you be cold with the bathroom door right open and god knows how many people watching you shower?

In my job as Law Guardian I represent kids in all sorts of legal matters- custody, visitation, abuse, neglect- everything. The fact that these kids are not individually represented (due to the fact that I see a few conflicts of interest here- what might be okay for one kid might be terribly upsetting to another) is a crime.

A Mother's Walk said...

mermaids said...
When I heard about Mady & Hate taking a trip to CA, just the two of them, I thought "How weird?" Then I it occurred to me that perhaps this is a form of "hush money" for Mady. She is a smart little girl who is not afraid to speak her mind. Did she threaten to spill the beans, so Kate offered her a special trip to CA to placate her? I would not put it past her... and TLC.

One day, Mady is going to tell all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I totally agree. She is going to tell us all the juicy stuff that went on behind the lies. I am not sure if I would buy a book she wrote, for fear I would throw up.

It would hurt my heart to know 'everything' that went on in the Kate Prison.

A Mother's Walk said...

FancyNancy said...
I just made a $20 donation to a Minor Consideration. It's not much, but it's what I could could spare this month. Plus, if God loves me as much as He loves Kate, I will instantly get a $20 gift card in the mail, right? Anyhow, in this case, it feels good to put my money where my mouth is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
GOOD FOR YOU SISTER! If I had anything this month I would give it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I don't have a camera crew molesting my privacy and a production company paying me tens of thousands of dollars to tape my life w/ my 3 young children.

If I do stumble on some cash that is where it is going for sure!!

thehazlettfamily said...

Sort of like their vow renewal was just a premise for the show. They wanted a trip to Hawaii and the show wanted them to renew their vows.
*********************************
If you recall, Kate always wanted to get married in Hawaii but her family could not foot the bill to go there? Just another instance of the kids working to get Kate what she wants.


Investigators will have to decide whether the Gosselins' house in Lower Heidelberg Township is essentially a TV set where producers direct much of the action - in which case the law may apply - or if it's a home where the children aren't working but are simply living their lives, albeit in front of cameras.
*********************************
The investigators need to interview the parents of the children at the birthday party. It's been mentioned that one of them said the crew prompted Colin to thank his mother for the party. That would mean the crew is providing set direction. Everytime the kids are told to say "this time on Jon & Kate plus 8" it is at the prompting of the crew...set direction again. Every time they go somewhere and meet someone, the crew is telling them where to stand, etc...set direction. That makes the show a TV set. I think the only thing these kids did do that was reality was use the bathroom. Maybe not, since they could not potty on demand, they were forced to sit on the potty until they did go.

Sal said...

Mumsie thank you for your very informative post!

This is what I think is going to happen.
Initially the state will find that the Gosselins and TLC are not breaking any laws.
TLC and Jon and Kate will all come out gloating and bragging, "See we are doing nothing wrong and the show must go on!"
Investigators will be disturbed
by what they do find.
Finally Senators and other law makers will pass laws protecting children in reality shows.

I am afraid much damage has already been done to the two oldest. I hope they will be able to find healing.

Dee said...

Sal E. said...
What happens if everything is found to be legal and in place as far as the Pa. Labor law goes? What then? I think it will propel TLC and Jon and Kate plus 8 into the stratosphere. Their ratings will soar again and no one will be able to stop them because they will have been found to be doing nothing unethical. What a nightmare.

-----------------------
I hope that if they are found to be in compliance, that people will write their legislators to pass child labor laws that make sense and actually protect the kids. I'm not sure the ratings will soar (and hope they don't). I think more people are becoming aware of what a joke this show is. If they start making the episodes all about Kate - I think that's fine. Don't think people will watch her for long - there's nothing behind the facade except greed. It annoys me a little that she may still profit from all this b.s, but if it gets the kids out of the spotlight, think that's a good thing. Jon really needs to step up though and re-connect the kids with friends and family. Just don't know if he's strong enough to do that. I hope so!

Pink said...

Mermaids said, "When I heard about Mady & Hate taking a trip to CA, just the two of them, I thought "How weird?" Then I it occurred to me that perhaps this is a form of "hush money" for Mady."
_________________________
Yes, and it could be so Kate can also lure Mady into a mother/daughter relationship with her. Shocking I know. But, recent eye witness accounts have stated that Mady clings onto Jon's leg screaming and crying for him not to leave her with Kate when he goes away. So both motivations together account for smoother sailing when the film crew is present. Afterall, it's all about the show, right Kate?

machelle said...

Does anyone know more about Kate's background? Does she have any long time girlfriends who can explain such strange behavior? What about her family history? Looking for reasons why someone would act the way she does in her life...

Ihave8 said...

Throwing this in here, I'm trying to keep up.
Wasn't that picture of the naked baby a Lifetime movie?
But, it was just that, a pic of our babies. We all have naked baby pictures but I don't think we have pics of thier 1st poop. And we don't put them on national TV.

a few thoughts said...

I don't hate Kate or Jon Gosselin. I do hate the fact that the actions of these parents and the public that is scrutinizing them is also in the children's lives.

Is it the chicken or the egg? Did the Gosselins behavior in the public eye bring this on themselves, or has it all been manufactured by that same public?

As another example, what brought the firestorm of bad press and paparazzi upon Britney Spears and the like, while others in the public eye/entertainment industry seem to escape this type of media wrath? Was it their bad behavior to begin with, or the public scrutiny regarding their bad behavior that brought on the media frenzy? I realize that the Roloff and Duggar or Hayes families do not create the same media feeding frenzy as the Gosselins, is that because the material is just not there?

The Gosselins did make a choice to make their family public. But others have as well without the same negative press results. Could a decision have been made by these parents to tone things down a bit before this all exploded, on behalf of their family? Sure, maybe they should be able to be themselves, but what if a parent being himself/herself is not a healthy thing for the family, for the marriage, for the children? As mature adults we should be able to problem solve and change course when things go wrong. We should be able to make the decision to take action to strengthen a family rather than let if fall apart. Some of these issues regarding the Gosselins that fuss up the public have been talked about for a long time, time enough to have changed course to protect their family? I hope that the scenario didn't continue simply to keep the show going, create ratings, the income stream going come hell or high water. Perhaps some of the issues have been manufactured or intensified by the press, but after the fact, can't these parents make a choice to become private again with their business to stop the bad press? If we point fingers only at the media and public, does it remove responsibility from Jon and Kate/TLC/child labor issues for their part in this situation?

I don't know the answers, but once again I feel that the children get the short end of the stick. I point some fingers at the media and those that have been outraged by some aspects of the show. But I also point fingers at the parents that just don't seem to be able to stop, go home and cherish those kids, centering for a while upon what they may really need at this time without thinking so much of the kind of income it takes to support their current lifestyle, but toning down a bit to close the gates, stop the bleeding and shore up the foundations.

This, in my opinion, would show the sharks that Jon and Kate really are in it for the kids. Keeping going despite the fact that the family is imploding does not make me think it's all for the kids. Food, shelter and clothing and college for 8 kids that will certainly be eligible for financial aid can be provided along with a lot of love and fun for much, much less.

I don't need to be entertained by this show. I don't need to watch this show as a train-wreck. Sponsors and ad space will go elsewhere. The public will survive if the show ends. The family will survive if the "media business" income ends. What is it that the children and the marriage need at this time, or perhaps a year or two ago? I don't think it was my viewing pleasure.

Time will tell. We will hear from the kids eventually. There are many fingers to be pointed, Jon and Kate is where change should start, or should have months ago. Bore the masses and they go home. I don't need to hate Jon or Kate to feel these things.

readerlady said...

Maude, she took the picture because she thought it was a good shot - "artistic", as someone else pointed out. But she didn't intend to disseminate it. It was for the family album. I think, and it's just my own personal opinion, that the prosecutor was so zealous in going after her because she was a lesbian and in a relationship at the time. There was never a HINT of sexual abuse or anything else other than someone's dirty mind. There was a TV movie made about the incident - HBO, I think, but this was some time ago and the details are a bit fuzzy now.

Re the twins' music lessons - I don't think it was "contrived" for the show, because Jon said in an episode much later on that Mady was keeping up with her violin lessons, although Cara quit the piano pretty quickly. The couple of times that Mady has sung on the show she has a good voice, too, so there's some musical talent there. As a kid who "suffered" through piano lessons from the age of 4 and voice lessons as a teenager and then an adult, talent needs to be encouraged by the parents. I sure as heck wasn't happy about having to practice every day when I was a kid, but I appreciate all the opportunities music has brought me as an adult.

UGH! said...

There are SO many examples of how those kids are "working".

How about the Good Housekeeping photo shoot where they had to pose all day in winter clothing (for the Thanksgiving issue, how sadly ironic) when it was something like 90 degrees outside when they were taking pictures on the porch?

naomi said...

Didn't Jon complain once in a "behind the scenes" episode about having to keep the same haircut or facial hair for periods of time in order to maintain continuity between episodes?

This must apply to the children too.

Kids whose haircuts and other appearance-related issues (like Mady's braces) are being dictated by a television show's filming schedule are totally working.

Amy2 said...

Gosselins filmed in California last year on their way to Hawaii. Were they complying with California Labor Laws when they filmed? Were the children only working the legal amount of hours? Were educators on the set? If they didn't there's the opening to investiage child exploitation in California.

mrst said...

There are a few questions that I have been wondering about. If Jon and Kate had not been accused of these extra marital affairs, would this reality show go on as usual? It seems as though once these accusations surfaced, more people were really looking into this situation. What will happen to the other television reality shows that have children in them? They should also look into whether children should be involved with reality shows.

Milehimama said...

She is going to tell us all the juicy stuff that went on behind the lies. It's not "juicy" stuff. It's a tragedy.

I hope the children are able to shake off the infamy as adults, and don't go public with their private torments. I hope that someday they realize that their private hopes, dreams, and problems don't have to be on camera or in print in order for them to be valued and loved - and that they skip their own book tour and View interviews.

cdnmom47 said...

Heavens, if anyone working in the right department for the state were to watch Youtube's 'Jon & Kate Plus 8 'ugly moments' from season ___'(each season has videos) they would certainly get an eyeful of what I call abuse. If that's what they showed on the program, what in the heck was left on the cutting room floor????

I know I had a real hard time watching those videos...it was sickening and some segments I just couldn't watch, they were so awful.... I don't know if everyone would call it abuse, but I certainly do.

Hopefully that one angel will step forward and be the voice for these kids...bring them some justice, and some peace.

Maude said...

Readerlady,
Thanks for clearing that up. I figured that was what you meant, but every once in a while I read a really far fetched comment, so I guess I was being overly sensitive there. No offense.

bj said...

I just saw a report on Fox News about the Gosselins being investigated for child exploitation. There was a woman on who may be an advocate, I'm not sure, for children on TV.

It's all over the tv now.
It's just about the same issues that Jen K. talked about.
Peace to those children.

tallblonde said...

Per People Magazine "Meanwhile, Kate Gosselin went on a working vacation in North Carolina last week with her eight kids, body guards, a nanny and camera crews."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20282369,00.html

I might be jumping to conclusions ;-) but I think the above just referred to all parties involved WORKING.....including the children.

cjmiller53 said...

Does anyone remember hearing Kate say that one of the little girls has migraine headaches? It seemed that it was a explanation for why she slept separately from her sisters. I've never heard that young children have migraines...I may be ignorant of childhood headache issues but that just doesn't seem common. I wonder if the little one has headaches because of the emotional stress from doing the show or is it from the lights that were installed in the G's home to help with the production of the show. Does anyone have any insights into this issue?

just wondering said...

cjmiller53 said...
Does anyone remember hearing Kate say that one of the little girls has migraine headaches? It seemed that it was a explanation for why she slept separately from her sisters. I've never heard that young children have migraines...I may be ignorant of childhood headache issues but that just doesn't seem common. I wonder if the little one has headaches because of the emotional stress from doing the show or is it from the lights that were installed in the G's home to help with the production of the show. Does anyone have any insights into this issue?
**********************************

Kate "says" that she used to have headaches when she had long hair. Now she "says" that Hannah has migraines, yet Hannah has hair down to her butt and Kate hasn't tried cutting it. (?????)

But Hannah is also perceived as the favorite child and is permitted her own bedroom, so who the H*** knows the truth?

jettmom said...

Not to defend her statement, but I starting suffering from migraines at 6 and my daughter at 8. Hair tiebacks do contribute to them and that is why my daughters hair has been a bob cut for a while!!

Becky B said...

Even if there is no law that specifically says what needs to be done, are there no Penns in government that simply want "to do the right thing?"

Moral obligations might not be spelled out in black and white.

Milehimama said...

While I am unfamiliar with all of the causes of childhood headaches, I DO know that California limits the amount of time young children are allowed to be under studio lights for health reasons.

Lost in Translation said...

OctoMom -- Babies Got Bank
Posted Jun 2nd 2009 1:47AM by TMZ Staff

OctoMom may be protecting her OctoATMs after all -- by making sure the kiddies get their proper cut of the profits when it's time to start filming her reality show.

Nadya Suleman's lawyer told us she has already set up "Coogan Accounts" for the OctoATMS -- which are required for any child actors (aka her kids) under contract. The accounts tuck away 15% of the kids' gross earnings, which can't be touched until they turn the ripe age of 18.

At least they'll have something to show for it.


WHY DON'T THE GOSSELIN'S HAVE THIS??? OH, RIGHT, THEIR MOTHER WON'T ADMIT THEIR ACTORS!!!!!!!!

SkippyMom said...

The speculation about the supposed "migranes" because the girl's hair is so long is preposterous.

Has anyone noticed how fine and thin their hair is? There is absolutely no weight to it to cause a so-called "migrane".

Additionally migranes are not caused my hair weight or hair rubbers. I am so tired of people that throw the word out there as "Oh my god I have a migrane" If this child truly suffered from migranes you would never seen her on tv. They are debilitating to the point that complete quiet, darkness and medication are required to alleviate the pain. She may sleep alone, but that is it.

She may have headaches but until they show the episode where she visits the doctor and is diagnosed [or happen to mention she actually went to a doctor for this problem] then Kate needs to stop with the dramatic "She has migranes". They are rarely, if ever diagnosed in a child as young as 7.

I do feel sorry for her - I would get a bad headache too from the situation she has been put in.

Jacqui Writes said...

I'm very glad to discover this site. I've worried about these children for months. I have written to Master Card and TLC. I look forward to seeing a list of advertisers to whom I can write.

MomToTwins said...

I have heard so many stories of child actors in the past that said by the time they became adults there was no money left in their accounts, even if the parents had the best intentions for them.

But that didn't seem to be the case for Mary Kate Olson and her sister. They were twins who started working as babies and continued on through teenagers. They had strenuous acting schedules, but at least had some acting regulations in place and it was not as secretive about what money they earned. As adults they have money to use for whatever business endeavor they would like such as designing clothes. They have had their share of problems stemming from the result of being child actors. It definitely took a toll on their self-image.

My point is I wonder what would have happen if the older acting laws had been in place and the Olsen twins had only legally received a small fraction of the money say something called a "college fund" and the rest was given to the parents to use as they saw fit "what was in the best interest of the child"?

I'm not saying that the Gosselyns have anything but the best financial intentions for them (and work schedules), but I do agree that the acting world needs to update their laws and catch up with modernizing reality show regulations. It does not seem fair to depend on the parents to do what is best for the children.

Each of the Gosselyn children should have really made at least 1/10 of the paid amount of the show to be left in an account that the parents cannot touch, since the first show aired. I remember hearing a quote that someone once overheard the two Olsen children discussing how much they were making and I think one child thought $1 a day and the other child thought $5 a day. At least financially they had laws on their side to protect them.

I think in light of the emotional issues the network should have some integrity and pull the show since this goes beyond anything thought up in the past in terms of child regulations. It is easy to put a definition on work schedules and handling of child actor salaries, but this is emotional distress that is glaringly obvious. Who has their children take part in an elaborate wedding renewal only to be filmed a few months later participating in turbulent and emotional episodes where their parent’s marriage is dissolving from separation to a possible divorce?

UGH! said...

OctoMom -- Babies Got Bank
Posted Jun 2nd 2009 1:47AM by TMZ Staff

-------------------

Pretty sad that K8 makes Octomom look good.

Very concerned said...

Why isn't CPS or child protective services investigating this family? It is very clear these kids are being emotionally harmed by the comments being said on episodes by the children themselves! They investigate Britney Spears for a faulty high chair and seatbelts yet let these kids be filmed on national TV half naked going potty and showering!

jonandkatewho? said...

SkippyMom said...

The speculation about the supposed "migranes" because the girl's hair is so long is preposterous.

Has anyone noticed how fine and thin their hair is? There is absolutely no weight to it to cause a so-called "migrane".

Additionally migranes are not caused my hair weight or hair rubbers. I am so tired of people that throw the word out there as "Oh my god I have a migrane" If this child truly suffered from migranes you would never seen her on tv. They are debilitating to the point that complete quiet, darkness and medication are required to alleviate the pain. She may sleep alone, but that is it.

She may have headaches but until they show the episode where she visits the doctor and is diagnosed [or happen to mention she actually went to a doctor for this problem] then Kate needs to stop with the dramatic "She has migranes". They are rarely, if ever diagnosed in a child as young as 7.

I do feel sorry for her - I would get a bad headache too from the situation she has been put in.

6/02/2009 5:41 PM

ITA! I have suffered from chronic severe headaches since I was a child. They got worse as I became a woman. Even mine were not diagnosed as "true" migraines because I lacked the hallmarks of migraine, which can be weird vision, certain smells and tastes, other symptoms. I do not have migraines.

There are many causes of headaches, one of which is stress and another muscle tension (from stress?).

I highly doubt this child has migraines and I've also noted the kids do not have thick hair. The hair is not the problem, Kate!

This is just more of Kate and her over the top drama.

If they wanted to give Hannah a room to herself they should have just been honest about it. Kate's propensity for being overly dramatic is one of the things that makes people question her and find her annoying. She should seriously take some of those ill-gotten gains of hers and buy a friggin' clue!