What Paul Petersen Has to Say

This blog entry is a follow-up to yesterday's entry

Below you will see the contents of an email received by one of our readers who has been communicating with Paul Petersen, founder of A Minor Consideration:

As you read, notice that it is in reverse chronological order and you can see Mr. Petersen's attitude grow from mildly concerned to increasingly alarmed and disturbed... much as has our own attitude:

Hi Serena!

Your blog is amazing and the first thing I found when I started "worrying" about Jon and Kate's kids.

I emailed Paul Petersen and thought you would enjoy his reply. Hopefully he will look further into the show and talk openly about it. He could definitely take it up a level.

I added your blog link as well as Julie's to my email to him. I have copied his email below. Thanks so much for all you do.

Sincerely
Jan [last name removed]

INSERT:

Hi Jan,

Something must have happened on this show that has generated (let me be kind) all this concerned email. Do you have a specific concern?

Just to save time, Janice, below is a copy of an email I sent out earlier this week.

My Best,
Paul Petersen

INSERT:

Dear Lynn,

Before I take my short cut and copy you with an email I sent out earlier this week, let me tell you that I am getting more and more inquiries about this so-called reality show that has been running for years now. More and more people, if my email traffic is any indication, are expressing their misgivings about this show as we now plainly see more and more altered behaviors not just with the little ones, but with the parents as well.

Big trouble, I fear, is on the horizon, and I quite agree with you that contacting the sponsors is probably the best "first step" in raising the proverbial "Red Flag."

I have noted that the older twins, in school and subject to the impact of their peers, are not seen as much as in previous seasons...and for a man with a keen sense of notoriety's impact on children, I am beginning to feel the awakening of that "advocate dragon" that lies coiled in my soul.

Something is amiss. When I checked out the show this week I was squirming in my seat. Below is what I wrote on Sunday the 13th of July. My concerns have since been sharpened.

Thanks for writing, Lynn.

My best,
Paul Petersen

INSERT:

Dear Vicki,

Thanks for making contact. You may want to watch Fox News today because they are actually interviewing a qualified (and quite knowledgeable psychologist) about 'Borrowers' that makes some good points.

Now then, as to Jon and Kate...I have been tracking this show for quite a while...and like you, I'm beginning to feel uncomfortable with this show as the years roll by and the kids (all of 'em) are getting older.

I initially felt okay with this show, mostly because that father-part of me recognized what an enormous expense six babies would create...What's a father to do? Mom, too, for that matter. I remember how overwhelmed they were.

But now that the kids are on the brink of interacting with their peers (and like you I have no idea what the monetary compensation might be...or how it's distributed, or whether their is a Court-Approved contract...but since it's not being filmed in California it means that whatever the compensation is it belongs, absolutely and without qualifications, to the parents.

The real trouble for these children, and for all eight of them, is what lies ahead. They have broken away from anything resembling normalcy...and the grinding reality of Fame is going to impact the family. There is simply no escape.

If the parents recognize that notoriety has done to them, how it changed their friends' behaviors and altered their life's path, perhaps the kids will handle things okay...but if they keep doing this show it will get worse and worse as the kids ride on their different paths.
I haven't heard anything horrible...as yet...and my former kid star pals from big families (like the Corcoran clan) remind me that a large family is, in fact, a protective dynamic.

So, what I'm saying is, with no evidence to the contrary, I'm okay with this show...for now.

My best,
Paul Petersen


Reprinted with permission from Jan.

86 comments:

Mit said...

I just emailed the guy who wrote the article on Kate back when she wanted to keep the nurse -- he replied to me within 40 minutes - thanking me for the suggestion... maybe he's working on it :)

Chela429 said...

I would feel better if someone who didn't have a financial interest in these children were making decisions for them.

Let's hope the money they are earning wont fund any more plastic surgery, golf outtings and trips to the keys.

Anonymous said...

Quote: "Let's hope the money they are earning wont fund any more plastic surgery, golf outtings and trips to the keys."

Or a trip to Hawaii to stage a fake wedding vow renewal ceremony... whoops... too late.

Chela429 said...

I don't remember ever seeing a vow renewal in Hawaii...

Almost makes me want to have two sets of multiples through IVF. Oh wait, no thanks. Thats not for me.

Anonymous said...

Paul Petersen asks about a specific concern. Since we only glimpse an edited version of what happens on the show it is hard to say a specific incident. However, here is my list of what is making me think that an outside child's advocate should assess the situation:

This doesn't have to do with the show, but rather internet info. The absence of Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin in the kids lives now. These people along with their children have formed part of a support system for the Gosselin children. The Gosselin children are now isolated from that support system. In general when people become abusive one of the warning signs is isolating the victim from support. I don't know that that is what is happening, but I think that it is a red flag that a child advocate should look into.

From the 'tups fourth birthday party episode. Cara and Mady are both required to wear shoes that do not fit their feet properly. The shoes are part of the product promotions sponsors do. In my mind this begs the question: to what extend are the children being forced to wear items that are ill fitting or just items they don't want to put on. This may have been a fluke, or it may be constant. I don't know but I think it is another reason why a child advocate should check into the situation.

Also from this episode: The bakery where the decorating took place was about a 2 hour drive one way (it was 75 miles from THE CHURCH, in the opposite direction from the house.) So we have a four hour drive to decorate cupcakes. How often are the children hauled for hours at a time somewhere and what kind of a toll is this taking on them?

The day in the life episode where the blinds were being hung to facilitate editing. Kate states that they are speeding up editing to get episodes out faster. This raised a concern for me about how often the children are required to be in front of the camera. How much time is actually spent filming each episode? What kind of breaks from filming are the children allowed.

The hidden cameras in the children's bedrooms to "find out if they were taking their naps." I forget which episode this was in.

As the founders of this blog have also stated: Filming the children on potties for up to an hour that we know of (I think that was the amount of time Collin was required to sit on the potty during toliet training until he actually went), and filming the children being given showers.

While I have other things that have made me uncomfortable as regards to Kate's (sometimes Jon's) parenting (i.e. not giving the boy's their cupcakes), I don't believe that that behavior rises to the level of needing a child advocate. I do believe however that there have been an increasing number of red flags and that a child advocate should look into the matter.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to read that Mr. Petersen is looking into the Gosselin situation. However, there currently are no real laws protecting the rights of children in reality shows. In three states-- CA, NY and NJ-- there exists laws (somewhat) protecting child actors. Commonly known as the "Coogan Law," named for child actor Jackie Coogan, it provides that a trust account be set up for minor actors' earnings (15% of earnings). Sadly, in other states, the parents are entitled to the minor child's earnings. Also, children "participating" in reality shows generally are not covered by this law.
I feel for the Gosselin children and also any other children who may be exploited under the banner of "reality" TV. I feel more must be done to fight for the rights and dignity of those minors who have no choice and no voice.

Anonymous said...

Quote: "I don't remember ever seeing a vow renewal in Hawaii... "

You haven't -- YET. It is coming.

carrie said...

Re: Hawaii vow renewal

She let that gem slip in Utah. I'm guessing the blog editors know something I don't, but as soon as I heard Kate make that suggestion in the Utah episode I knew that was an "upcoming family memory".

Lady Lou said...

I've seen Paul Peterson on several shows concerning children - he's a great guy and is a wonderful advocate. I'm very encouraged that he is taking an active interest in this 'show', if you can call it that anymore. All this is anymore is a way for the parents to generate income.

AmandaT said...

Perhaps we can be hopeful that in the future there will be "Gosselin Laws" that protect children in these reality shows. Perhaps these laws can also include a provision that requires producers and crews to become mandated reporters.
I agree that the Collin/potty issue was over the line - imagine what would have happened had an aide in a nursing home had left an elderly resident on a toilet for an hour?

Also, I did cringe at the bathing scenes. I belong to a popular moms-only site, and recently there was a blow-up over finding out there were certain people on the circumcision and breastfeeding boards .... people who derived sexual pleasure from talking about and seeing pictures of babies.

The more attention this issue gets, the better. While there are no existing protections on the books, it often takes a real life situation to start the ball rolling.

laura linger said...

He's such a good guy. Truly an advocate for the rights of children working in an industry that seems hell-bent on chewing kids up and spitting them out.

Thank you so much for posting this.

jus sayin said...

Yup Kate keeps talking about going to Hawaii!!!!

its so shocking because she got married she NEVER went ANYWHERE.....

and now she acts like world travler....... nice to have 8 kids to pavve ur way for VACA!!!!

jmgamg said...

Even from his most recent email, it appears that despite all the concern he receives he still has not seen the show. I don't get the sense that he's going to review the situation in the near future. He said "something must have happened." If he actually read viewer concerns or did any research whatsoever he would know that it isn't a one-time incident that spurred the concern. It is the nature of the show itself, and the greedy parents who use their children for money.

Paul Petersen has gone way down in my book. Clearly, he's overwhelmed bearing the burden of child advocacy.

iluveeyore said...

Big red banner: The children have no "home to go home to." They live on a tv set.

They have been photographed during private personal moments.

Their physical/emotional support people (Beth, Jodi, Kevin, et al.) have been removed.

They are forced to perform -- they are taken places and put into situations (that would otherwise not have occurred) and then photographed.

They are getting mixed signals from their parents. One parent sends them to time out, the other one tells them not to go.

They are terrified of "getting dirty" or even getting a stain on their clothes.

They are being "infantalized" -- being kept babies to keep them under control and to keep them "photogenic."

I really hope that Mr. Peterson is still reading this blog.

Anonymous said...

Also from this episode: The bakery where the decorating took place was about a 2 hour drive one way (it was 75 miles from THE CHURCH, in the opposite direction from the house.) So we have a four hour drive to decorate cupcakes. How often are the children hauled for hours at a time somewhere and what kind of a toll is this taking on them?

Actually Its 35 miles from their house to their church, and 50 miles from the church to the cupcake bakery = 85 mile drive going and 76 miles going back home...

But nevermind all that, the real attention should have been paid to the bullshit they were selling at fact. They HAD to take them to the Cupcake place cause it was FREE, BUT also cause it was a foil or excuse to deflect from the fact that they couldnt have a BIG PARTY this year for them because NO ONE ELSE WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE BUT THEM! No Jodi and Kevin and their kids and no Beth and her kids and no nanas...

Sad.

Im praying that God heals Kates Narcissism.

Cynthia said...

All I can see is: Remember Gary Coleman! Thank goodness that can't happen anymore to child actors in CA...

Anonymous said...

Someone who knows Jon's cousin said they'll be in Hawaii on August 12 for 2 weeks:

I think my friend (Jon's cousin) said it will be later this summer. She also told me the hotel that was sponsoring the trip--but I can't remember the name. It could be Grand Wailea, but I am not sure. Wherever it is, it should be fun!

&

Local family members are going on August 12. I think the Gosselin's will be there for 2 weeks around that date. I heard the Jon and Kate will renew their wedding vows.

Link:

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?s=77060db9156d3036f574fb0839e94607&t=14645

You're welcome! :)

-Chris

Anonymous said...

This is in reply to the post by Anonymous posted on July 22, 2008 @ 3:04 pm about the Gosselins going to Hawaii around August 12...according to the schedule on this website, Jon and Kate have a speaking engagement scheduled in Pennsylvania on August 12...hmmm, will be interesting to find out what happens...

WatchOverThem said...

J&K renewing vows? I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Anonymous said...

I guess I have a different take on Mr Petersen's e-mails but he seems disinterested and uninformed.

Anonymous said...

I would agree with anonymous above. Seems a lot of people are paying lip service to the kids needing help but until someone actually steps up and does something, I still fear for the kids. I too used to watch the show thinking it was cute, but Kate slapping Jon in the face, Jon making fun of Joel, and the general excuses they make for Mady's obvious need for counseling is just too much for me. I have sent an email to TLC and I think the embarrassing moments episode was TLC's attempt to acknowledge all our concerns but I truly believe it backfired on all of them. Just my opinion.

bethanna said...

I wouldn't put it past Jon and Kate to load the kids into the van and go do the speech before bording a plane immediately after. That would give her plenty of opportunity to get melodramatic and bitch about how slow Jon is. Can you imagine the number of "Helloooo"s we could get? ;)
Let's get serious for a second, though. If you were Jon, would you re-marry Kate?

She keeps his coconuts in her sock drawer, already. Would he even be allowed to say 'NO. I don't want to do this, Kate.' Since they've been married, he has lost his friends, his family, and his dignity. Since the twins were born, he lost his voice and any parental authority he may have wished to enjoy. Kate has constantly undercut his statements, decisions, and solutions on NATIONAL television. She's smacked him. She's told the children he doesn't care about their safety. She's made a life out of taking his choices away one by one. What's next?

Maybe Kate will piss Pele' off by taking volcanic rocks one...one for each child?? The goddess of creation versus the amazing uterus...I'd pay five bucks to see that fight. ;)

Anonymous said...

Anon: I guess I have a different take on Mr Petersen's e-mails but he seems disinterested and uninformed.

In reading the posted emails from Paul Peterson, I also had the impression that he had not fully grasped what is going on here. Actually, I think he gets the concern about exploitation of child stars, but is very uninformed as to the level of deep psychpathology present in that family. Hope he will get the full picture and be able to help.

Anonymous said...

WatchOverThem said: J&K renewing vows? I just threw up a little in my mouth.

If they are planning a ceremony to renew their vows in Hawaii(and they may well be) - this is absolutely disingenuous. Do they think we're stupid? They sit on a couch and display their profoundly dysfunctional and disturbing relationship for all to see - and then they renew their vows as an episode? J&K are toxic, spineless, and imbeciles - but TLC is no better if they think viewers will buy into this. It's a freak show. I wonder how many sheeples are left as of today.

hellokitty said...

In reference to Hawaii & their speaking schedule: Is it possible that maybe the episode was already filmed and won't air until the middle of August? (Kate did have tan lines with that red halter.) I could be wrong, and they'll just cancel another speaking engagement. Guess we'll have to wait & see!

PS-I've been "anonymous" for awhile now, so I guess I'll finally settle on a name. :)

Holly said...

Wouldn't it be GREAT if during this "vow renewal" ceremony, Jon stopped and said "Actually Kate, I DON'T and in the divorce settlement, I'm asking for my balls back".

LOL. Now that's must see TV.

Anonymous said...

Last Friday, 7/18, I called the 1-800 tip line number of the National Enquirer. I actually spoke with Sarah Cordes, the reporter who did the story. I shared with her what information I could. She said she is planning to stay on this story and planning to do a story on Kate herself as well. I just share this to let people know to keep watching the NE. You know, I have to honestly admit:
I was a bit squeamish about calling the NE - given it's reputation - HOWEVER - I had to - it is all that seems to be available right now to get the story out. ALSO, I feel very, very sad that the NE has to be the vehicle we are forced to rely on to help those kids. I know that we cannot know things that go on behind the scenes, but I have to say, I am feeling very angry at the extended family and former friends right now (yes, that means Aunt Jodi, Uncle Kevin, Beth, Grandparents Kreider, Kate's sisters, Jon's mother, etc.)because while Kate may have cut them out, they seem to be behaving like sheeple - taking her crap and walking away tails between their legs (much like Jon does). The only way those kids can be helped is through mature intervention from a family member(s). Are these people too afraid of Kate? If Kate were my sister and she cut me out, I'd be doing everything possible for an effective intervention. How can all of the above just stand by and let it happen? OK - maybe they are doing something and we just do not know about it. (I hope and pray this is the case.) I assume that a lot of people will be outraged at my suggesting Jodi is doing nothing - hey - I love Jodi - I wish she were my sister. But, sometimes it is simply time to rise to the occasion and do the right thing.

Anonymous said...

I guess Kate's hint during the Utah trip of wanting their next big vacation to be in Hawaii paid off.
Thumbs down to whatever resort ponied up the expense for these celebrity wanna be, scum at the bottom of the barrel child PIMPS. However, I do get some pleasure knowing that they wont be staying at the resort in Hawaii that my husband and I vacation often. Its a military ONLY resort. Reserved for the MUCH MORE deserving !!!

Anonymous said...

I think that Paul Petersen is concerned. Below is a quote from his letter:

I have noted that the older twins, in school and subject to the impact of their peers, are not seen as much as in previous seasons...and for a man with a keen sense of notoriety's impact on children, I am beginning to feel the awakening of that "advocate dragon" that lies coiled in my soul."

It's also his responsibility given his prominence to proceed with care. His voice carries weight and I think that he will be checking a variety of sources, not just one blog.

Serena said...

It's also his responsibility given his prominence to proceed with care. His voice carries weight and I think that he will be checking a variety of sources, not just one blog.

I agree. Another factor in Mr. Petersen's restraint is that reality TV is not an area he's been involved with in the past.

Many of us in contact with him have had the Gosselins on our minds for quite some time and have seen every episode... he has a lot of catching up to do before he is as well-versed as we are with all the issues involved.

nofantasy said...

Perhaps these laws can also include a provision that requires producers and crews to become mandated reporters.

Interesting suggestion. It's always tricky to get people to report (even mandatory reporters) but it would be hard for production crews to say they "didn't know" anything was going on since they're filming and recording everything. I'm curious to see if legislation will come out of the Gosselin's actions.

WatchOverThem said...

It would be curious to know, if the Gosselins ever do get a private teacher for the kids, if those type of teachers are mandated reporters as are other teachers.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps these laws can also include a provision that requires producers and crews to become mandated reporters.


Interesting. My impression though is that while Kate and Jon have room for improvement with parenting, with the care of the children they are not doing anything "reportable." I.e. the children are fed, clothed, they aren't being beaten, etc. On the other hand some of the concerns expressed above regarding production of the show (i.e filming Collin on the potty) the cameramen and producers are participants in the behavior that I think should be reportable, so I don't see them making good reporters.

AireZoe said...

Can you even imagine the torture of a 12-hour plane flight to Hawaii for those kids, and their felow passnegers? I just came back from Maui and was ready to kill the guy behind me for simply sniffling after a few hours. Who in their right mind would fly across country and the long flight to the islands with eight kids? Oh, never mind ...

Anonymous said...

It disturbs me to no end that a parent would allow a camera crew to film their 3-4 year old children in the nude bathing. Regardless of the fact that J & K consider the film and camera crew as 'family', allowing a camera crew to film their children in the nude IMO demonstrates an extreme lack of parental judgement and hardly in the best interest of the children ! I further question the CAMERA MAN that prioritizes a paycheck over that of any sense of moral integrity while filming 3-4 year old nude children. Would he allow the same to be done if the situation were reverse and it were his children being filmed and exploited for all the world to see? We would NEVER EVER see filming for entertainment purposes of the twins at age 7 nude and bathing so why not the same protection be given to the sextuplets? Why should we, as a society, consider one cute and precious and the other unacceptable and taboo? There can be no GRAY area when it comes to the rights and protection of children!! The same rights and protections given to 7 year old children must equally be given to 1,2,3,4.. year old children. If J & K cant or wont see through the dollar signs and their own self serving agenda to comprehend the necessity to protect their children, then it is the responsibility of outsiders to be the advocate and voice to make a change!!

Anonymous said...

Isn't it strange that Jon's cousin and other family members have been invited on the vacation in Hawaii. On another board I read that he has aunts and cousins still living in Hawaii. Why would they be invited when he has a mother and brothers with whom he has no relationship? This renewal of vows is just about the funniest thing I have read on this site. I wonder if Kate will be the author of these vows. That should be interesting.

Anonymous said...

"Another factor in Mr. Petersen's restraint is that reality TV is not an area he's been involved with in the past."

Yes. I'm sure it's a whole new ballgame. Kids are featured in many reality shows. (Supernanny) The Roloff kids seem to be doing OK too. So what's the problem?

Ugh. Jon and Kate in Hawaii. All expenses paid. "Holy sunburn, Batman!" Do I smell me some more "Mady Dramatic?" (PLEASE NO RED SHIRT!) Renewing vows. Blank-faced Jon reading his vows off cue cards... I'll set my dvr.

Anonymous said...

Like anyone one who works in the public eye, I am sure that J&K would require anyone who works for them to sign a confidentially agreement. People in the public eye even ask their closet friends and family to sign confidentially agreements even for something like a wedding. Didn't someone already mention that the production staff were required to sign confidentially agreements? Though with the production staff, that is probably something that Figure 8 requires of anyone who works on any of their shows.

Anonymous said...

"It disturbs me to no end that a parent would allow a camera crew to film their 3-4 year old children in the nude bathing."

I have read this over and over on this site. How many times was this done? Daily, monthly, once? People make it sound like it is on every week. I have seen video of kids bathing on "America's Funniest Home Video" many times as I have commercials. Are we outraged about this? Is there really a valid reason to be?

bethanna said...

I completely agree with getting Peterson involved. Reality TV is a new beast...there's little precedent for what the rules should/should not be regarding child labor. I know that, at one point, the Roloff's were criticized for showing their children operating dangerous equipment and working under the table (including OTHER children from their area). I think they were rightfully criticized for the dangerous equipment (the trebuchet nearly killed one of their children and a family friend). But, what's difficult to do in a reality show is calculate the hours the child is actually filming or being filmed. And, is it really employment if they make no money and are just being followed around doing the things they'd do everyday anyway?

My objection is to how quickly these shows go from showing reality to making a new reality for the participants. If a child is pulled out of school to go on trips funded by the production company or companies, then I say THAT time should count as employment. I also think the children in these shows should have some of the protections that Peterson offers in terms of having irrevocable trusts set up in their names. The issue I have is that when these reality shows started, it was mostly adults. The Real World, Survivor, Road Rules, and the shows that led to the success of this genre all used adults. At some point, bringing children into this mix because acceptable and marketable. Why? Parents should not be allowed to sell-out a child's dignity, personal comfort, or childhood. Parent's should not profit off their children (especially their child's constipation or illness or whatever). These kids are real human beings. They're not reality stars. And, when you have children like the G's, who've been on camera since they were born, what does that do to their sense of self-identification? The industry is hard. Cute sells. So, what happens when the Gosselin kids outgrow that cute stage? What happens when they turn into surly teenagers? What happens when another couple comes along with SEVEN children willing to pimp their family out? This is such a fleeting thing and these kids WILL feel responsible when it ends. At the very least, every child on a reality show should have a non-parental advocate to make sure their voice is being heard and considered. And, production staff should be required to report any abusive behaviors they see to these advocates. Childhood should trump entertainment- always!

Word is that Kate and Jon are actually spooked. Contrary to what they say, they do read the critical views of their family. And, they know that the gravy train is about to run wildly off the tracks. They've always dealt with naysayers...but now the naysayers are doing what they wouldn't do. The naysayers are saying they'd rather not see the show if it means giving the kids their childhood. It's hard to accuse people of being jealous when they're more concerned about your children than you are. And, they know family and community members are speaking out (FINALLY!).

Anonymous said...

To airzoe....they drove to DisneyWorld and Jon and Kate both spoke of using ear plugs. On top of that did you see Kate's meltdown when the plane got diverted from Utah. It looked like they were all in first class and the coach passengers were not so amused. I agree, that while they may be getting a free trip, I would not want to be on that flight! Free or not!

FIONA said...

Aiezoe,

They were not in first class....it was Southwest...just sayin

Anonymous said...

Who is Paul Peterson? I'm assuming he's a former child star - the name escapes me. What is he known for and why is he a advocate for children?

Katie Irene as a Scream said...

Every day it gets worse and worse. I can't imagine how Kate & Company can keep justifying their shameless actions.

Katie Irene is a Scream said...

In regards to the Southwest plane that they were on, gonig to UT, from what I understand, Southwest donated them an entire aircraft (yes they had the whole plane to themselves.)

Maggie said...

Anonymous, oh you of the convienient name, could you tell me the names of the children you have seen bathing in commercials or clips of family hone movies?

Are these children on television week after week? What state are they in, what are their parents last names?

I think there is a huge difference in a family video that is cute and gets posted on television in a one off, and a family who seemingly cannot show their children naked or on potties or in the shower enough.

They accept presents from any creep who wants to have a piece of the family, who are they to say no?

I see a difference between that and a family sending in a clip of a child to a reality clip show.

Lynn said...

Hi, I'm the Lynn in the 2nd letter from Mr. Petersen. I'll copy/paste the suggestions to him about everyone's concerns, I'm very concerned too.
He said that the thing to start with is so write letters to the sponsors of the show.
If you read farther down in the letter to me, he says that he's concerned about the twins, interacting with their peers, among other things. Hopefully we can really do this, with everyone's help. Does anyone have a list of the sponsors? Thanks! And thank you Serena and everyone that contributes to this forum, it's so nice to know that people do care, and realize how special those little ones really are. Lynn

Anonymous said...

Katie Irene is a Scream said...
In regards to the Southwest plane that they were on, gonig to UT, from what I understand, Southwest donated them an entire aircraft (yes they had the whole plane to themselves.)

July 25, 2008 12:29 AM

Then who was the pissed off looking man sitting behind Kate?
He did not look happy.

SHRIBBLED said...

Just a small comment here.... I think some people are believing that Beth is "cut out" of the kids' lives, but if I remember correctly, it was originally said that Beth would likely not be FILMED any more. Perhaps more has taken place since then, but it's my recollection that there was not going to be any more FILMING at Beth's house. Does anyone know?

Anonymous said...

Maggie, Is there a difference between using anonymous and a made up screen name? Commercials run monthly, weekly, daily and sometimes throughout the day. AFHV is repeated numerous times.

Anonymous said...

In response to the post : "Isn't it strange that Jon's cousin and other family members have been invited on the vacation in Hawaii". Two words, damage control. If in fact J & K are renewing their vows in Hawaii, the exclusion of family in support of their renewal would more than likely cause more damage to their already questionable reputation, ie., 'Isnt it nice that J & K's family love and support them so much and flew all the way to Hawaii to attend the renewal of their wedding vows'. You can bet the bank that their vow renewal photographs will be included in their new and improved multi media speaking engagements. What a great way to keep their 'faithful fans' believing in the illusion.

WatchOverThem said...

Anon 6:29 said: "Commercials run monthly, weekly, daily and sometimes throughout the day. AFHV is repeated numerous times."

If you ever get a chance to watch the potty training "Kandoo" commercial again, you can see that the little boy actor looks like he has just used the toilet, but camera angles and cut-aways allow that boy to be fully clothed at all times. I'm sure it took production a long while to figure out how they would film that before the child actor was even brought on set, as they could only work with him for 20 minutes out of an hour. We have seen the Gosselin children sitting on potty chairs literally eating their knees because they are too tall and big for potty chairs, and perhaps nude footage of private parts have been edited out, but the footage is still there and camera/production crews were still there. Made obvious by the uncut and unblurred footage of nude Hannah that made it to YouTube, with the TLC logo, that was viewed 12,000 times before being taken down.

If a family submits an embarrassing shot of their child to AFHV for all to see, perhaps shame on them. Hopefully it is a one time thing, going to reruns now and then, but cameras and commercial production crews have not followed that child around doing every activity almost everyday day of their young lives. These camera and production crews have also not stressed their mother out to be out-of-control with her emotions many times that we have seen on film. Do we think Kate's behavior is a complete 180 when she get's a break? I don't know, she seems to have embraced bitchy. Was her behavior better controlled in the first episode, before lights, camera and action were installed in her home and life? Yeah, she was.

AireZoe said...

The flight to Hawaii is one time - for the sake of everyone involved - that I hope J&K got all kinds of perks. I hope the kids are in comfortable seats, that they have at least a big section of the plane to themselves, that others are not disturbed by the kids (naturally pent-up energy needs to be released somewhere) or by their immature mother who, as we've seen, indulges her emotions at the expense of everyone around her on a plane.

Katie Irene is a Scream said...

I am almost certain the flight to UT was an entire private plane for them provided by Southwest b/c Kate made a few comments about it (didn't she also complain that the airline wasn't moving quickly enough, too?) Someone else weigh in, was their Southwest fight to UT a private plan just for them or was it open to other passengers as well?

Anonymous said...

Katie Irene is a Scream said...
In regards to the Southwest plane that they were on, gonig to UT, from what I understand, Southwest donated them an entire aircraft (yes they had the whole plane to themselves.)

July 25, 2008 12:29 AM

Then who was the pissed off looking man sitting behind Kate?
He did not look happy.

*********

They did NOT have the whole plane to themselves nor was it donated to them and the staff. There was another women on that plane with her husband and child as well as other non-related-to-the-show-passengers. She posted about it on her blog and recounted the whole flight. I'll see if I can find the link to her blog...
-Chris

Katie Irene is a Scream said...

Fidelia, Yeah I have the flight manifest in my purse. we're sharing our opinion, this is not a court of law and anyone who has a differing opinion is not on trail to pony up anything (it's not like I'm asking you to show me documented proof that Kate is NOT a welfare cheat.)

I said that I seriously thought the plane was donated to them, I could have sworn Kate even mentioned it.

sistah2 said...

As far as the trip to Hawaii, the way I understood it is that, the cousins that are involved are already living in Hawaii- there is no family from PA going. The family in Hawaii probably only know Jon fleetingly, but Kon need to recruit "new" family members so they can improve their battered image. The relatives from Hawaii are probably excited IMO to appear on TV and dont know they are being used.

Anonymous said...

I have to agree about the "facts" statement. I really like this site but people are getting too caught up in the movement and forgetting what this is all about. That is why we are being labeled "haters" or "crazies".

minxie said...

Kate said that all but a handful of people on the Southwest flight were from their party--family, friends, film crew. When the kids are running up and down the aisles you can see adults scattered in the back of the plane who don't appear to be part of the Figure 8 crew. So no, I don't think Southwest turned over an entire flight to the Gosselins--Southwest is a hugely popular airline and they wouldn't need PR from this relatively minor show. Design Star on HGTV had their contestants taking Southwest also. I tend to think these shows book flight times that are not heavily travelled so it may not be as frantic--who knows.

Anonymous said...

"I have read this over and over on this site. How many times was this done? Daily, monthly, once? People make it sound like it is on every week. I have seen video of kids bathing on "America's Funniest Home Video" many times as I have commercials. Are we outraged about this? Is there really a valid reason to be?"

Hannah naked bathing got 12 thousand hits on youtube before it was pulled. Its incredibly easy for even a halfwitted pedofile to figure out how to find that naked child. Thats valid reason number one.

Valid reason number two is this. Get out the occasional nude photo your parents took of you (we all have them). You squatting on the potty naked. You naked, eating catfood from the cat's dish, whatever. Now make copies and hand them out to strangers. With your name on them. Embarrased yet? Now imagine going to high school where all your friends own dvds of you covered in your own feces while your mom goes on about how you aren't trained. Does mom and dad earning a few bucks mean their kids deserve that?

FeistyCuban said...

For the person who stated she hopes the money doesn't go to plastic surgery, the surgeries were free. Kate's tummy tuck and Jon's hair plugs were donated.

zap said...

Please get your facts straight. Kate did not have IVF, she had IUI. There is a huge difference between the two in that J&K did not choose to have a high number of embryos put back into her uterus. Below is a very high level summary of each method.

IVF:
1. Injections to stimulate many eggs to mature.
2. Harvest eggs from ovaries
3. Fertilize eggs in a laboratory
4. Implant any number of successful embryos back into uterus. (Number depends on patient and doctor)
5. Wait to see if any of the embryos implant.

IUI:
1. Injections to stimulate eggs to mature. Drugs are the same as IVF, but at a MUCH lower dose with the goal of only one or two eggs maturing.
2. Put sperm at the top of the cervix via a thin tube in the vagina.
3. Wait two weeks to see if any eggs were fertilized and implanted.


That said, Kate makes me ill. My heart was breaking for Collin during GumGate. If anything is to be done to protect those children then those trying to be advocates for them must present factual information only, otherwise we are nothing mroe than zealots.

Chela429 said...

FiestyCuban: I know the tummy tuck and hair plugs were free. However, you must realize that this couple is very interested in looks in general. What happens when less money is coming in? Will they dig into their funds for botox, massages, etc. All of the money being earned/donated should be accounted for and that which is not being used for the well-being of the children should saved for the children.

Kristin said...

Chela429- who are we to dictate how parents spend their money? Also, I disagree...Jon and Kate have done a few things for their appearance- teeth whitening, a tummy tuck (after 6 kids in one belly), and jon got some hair. I don't see any thing that says they are generally concerned with their appearance here. and find they both look quite worn out a lot of the time. I'm not seeing designer cars or clothes.

Chris said...

Following up on my previos comment here is the link to that ladies blog who was on that infamous flight to Utah with J & K & gang:


http://estherandrobby.blogspot.com/2008/01/jon-kate-plus-8.html

-Chris

Anonymous said...

Ah, that was actually a very sweet and generous post by a fan. Good to read that Kate does have good moments with fans.

K.C. said...

I read the other passenger's blog too, it was sweet!

I know this is terribly negative but did you scroll down to the bottom of the page and look at the photo of the attractive family? If you remember, all contact on the plane was between Kate and the good-looking husband. The wife was never around until the baggage claim. In fact, according to the blog entry, Kate did not even know the wife was on the flight. The blog owner's husband has some of the same characteristics as Jon, (only thinner and with better clothes). The same short, spiky, gelled, dark hair. The same facial hair/goatee Jon had at one point in the show...

It just strikes me as odd that so many females have reported rude encounters with Kate, (specifically in airports). Then an attractive man with a baby boy sees her on a plane and she behaves, well, human.

Anonymous said...

Just saw this posted on another site. Don't know if it's true or not but here it is:

This is the irst time I have been on this sit and I read almost all of the posts (up to 269) before I decided to write anything. Why am I here? well...it's kind of a long story. I found your site when I ran a search on google. I am neither fan nor hater. Infact until the accident I had never even seen the show (other than when they were on Oprah) but thats a whole seperate story. I was the victim in a car accident recently and unfortunately the person who hit me didn't care enough to stick around to see if I was even ok. after long talk and 3 coffees with my best friend I was convinced to do this. So I dont have a blog (yet) and since this typing about problems stuff is supposed to be healing, well here I am. For what it's worth Yes I have met Kate, no I do not "know" her but I know something about her. I know how she treated me. I know that she was not nice to me. And I know that if she hit you with her car she would not stop to see if you were ok.

http://parentingsquad.com/kate-gosselin-hero-no-more

sistah2 said...

Kristin - not to nit-pick, but its generally thought that Kate also had a boob job. Its very obvious, if you watch an old show vs. a new one.
That procedure was not shown on the show. Originally she asked the plastic surgeon from the tummy tuck to do it (free) but he declined.

Anonymous said...

I agree that this trip to Hawaii, besides being another freebie for Kate, is about damage control.

-Quick, find some relatives to shut up the bloggers.

-Let's renew our vows-cry a few tears-let everyone know we're just kidding with that bickering/love taps on the couch.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous - July 25 at 5:49

You're the person Kate hit with her car? Are you ok? How bad was it? I hope you're fine and on the mend. More staggering behaviour from an ill person - she is unbelievable. If she can do that to a stranger, what is she capable of behind closed doors? I really hope you're doing ok.

Kristin said...

My point is not how much they have done to their appearances..so what if Kate got a boob job too. If that's how they want to spend their money then that is their choice. I would give Jon and Kate enough credit though, that if they were running out of money, they would have the sense to stop doing these things or maybe they would look at getting jobs outside of the house. I just think some things are being taken a little too far.

Anonymous said...

What is this about Kate hitting someone with a car? When did this happen? OMG, that is serious. That is unbelievable. I'm just glad the person who was hit is okay.

nofantasy said...

I agree with Kristin. I don't see anything wrong with plastic surgery (my mother had plenty of it!), a day away from the kids, Botox, whatever. J & K are adults and they should be able to indulge in adult activities from time to time.

I would suggest a focus on what's *really* damaging and exploitive of the children. The kids being their sole source of income is troubling, the kids living in a fishbowl is troubling, their intimate moments filmed is troubling. If J & K want to act like adults from time to time, I'm ok with that.

AireZoe said...

Renewing vows on Hawaii, hmmm?

Do you, Jon, promise to make the beds, bathe the kids, take out the trash, fill the cars with gas and all that icky boy stuff?
Will you vow to keep Kate in sight at all times, obey her slightest wish, never scratch or breathe too loudly?
Will you learn to read her mind and protect her from all ice-cream disasters?
Will you stop playing with your kids, stop ignoring your wife when she embarrasses you and get with the program?
Do you promise to put three sugars in the coffee every morning, assemble all freebie furniture, drive hither, thither and yon for photo ops?
Will you love, honor and obey, as long as you both shall live?

Kate, will you promise to sleep late, lose your temper, throw toys and terrorize your loved ones?
Will you clean your house to the exclusion of your family's good times?
Do you promise to lose it at the drop of a hat and keep the family on their toes, walking on eggshells?
Will you vow to make memories if it kills them, damn it?
Will you love, honor and obey yourself as long as you both shall live?

I now pronounce you Jon & Kate + 8.
God have mercy on us.

Anonymous said...

About the passengers on the plane... they were young, great looking (esp the man) with a cute baby. Let's not forget about Kate's baby fetish. She likes em young, REAL young. That baby was less than a year at the time.

And I was so surprised at how nice Kate was to the husband and baby until I saw the picture of the family. I do believe Katie Irene was flirting! She can be sweet when she wants something. In this case, to hold a baby and maybe flirt with it's dad.

In those "early" videos of Kate and Jon, I thought she was putting on a major sweet act tryin to reel him in. It's once she "got" him and tied him down with 8 kids that the abuse began for real.

My boyfriend was engaged to someone VERY similar when he was very young... she was also blonde, also from PA and manipulative as could be, even in college! She showered him with fake affection, baby talked all the time, controlled him more and more, told a bunch of lies all the time just to get her way, slowly isolated him from family and friends, forced a proposal, then a few weeks before the wedding she confesses to, not cheating, but kissing, another guy. My bf is sure that she did more, but I feel that she was testing the waters to see how much she could get away with. She had taken over much of his life, but she wanted to see if she could totally own him. All the arrangements had been made but he found the excuse he was looking for and left and never looked back.

She made one or two psycho tries to get him back then moved on and married some other poor sod. She immediately had a baby. Set for 18 years, God knows what she does on the side.

She was from a town close to Kate's, and bf cannot watch the show because he finds Kate horrible. But when he saw the early years episode he was stunned at the difference and thanked his lucky stars he got out of that other relationship or he would have been miserable right now. He could see how his ex might have degenerated into similar behaviors, because CONTROL was the main theme of hers.

Kate thinks most people are beneath her but when she needs something from someone she is sweet as pie. Remember how mean she was to the first prospective nanny but how incredibly sweet she was to Sarah, the one she wanted? She was saying things like "I know you can do this, I have faith in you" within two minutes of meeting her ...it was so surreal! I can well believe she wooed Jon and baby stepped him into a life of total abuse.

sistah2 said...

I think the reason the plastic surgeries are an issue, if at all, is it just part of the big picture of why this family is so cheesy and the show has jumped the shark. Sure, you can say, who cares if they want to nip and tuck, etc. ? Also, we don't know what they actually pay for, and what they don't. We have a good idea most of its free. Its none of my business, but that goes back to some of this blog's sidebar FAQ (i.e. see "whats wrong with freebies?"). The point is, the materialistic lifestyle they now live is directly because they have decided to place the kids on reality TV . The boob jobs et al are the obvious , desperate, "I am a noveau celeb " routine. Also, it doesn't jive with the image they are trying to pull over with their Christian audience, that they are just simple God-fearing parents, living such a humble life. However, they are not the first average shlubs to turn grabby and cheesy when hit with a financial jackpot. Check out anyone who's won the lottery!

hellokitty said...

..so what if Kate got a boob job too.

I'll only speak for myself, but for me its not really them getting plastic surgery per se. Its that they have gotten these opportunities because (I feel) they have exploited their children.

AmandaT said...

The neighbor who posted about J&K on CafeMom also told about how Kate hit another car and drove away without checking. Her plates were copied, and she got a visit from the police, per the neighbor.
To the anon poster who c/p the reply: I went to the site provided, but did not see the comment at number 269. Was that the wrong comment number?

Anonymous said...

Mr. Peterson said the show "has been running for years now." (No, it just feels that way.) It's been 15 months and, as Serena pointed out, 60 episodes. That many episodes over a relatively short period of time, with the possibility of 40 more, is a concern.

Anonymous said...

AmandaT: It is post #298

Anonymous said...

Has the poster's claim to a hit and run by Kate Gosselin been supported by any outside documents (i.e. a police report, blurb in a paper)? It is a very serious charge and it seems as though a local paper (at the very least) would have reported on it if it was true.

I have no problem with people spreading this information if it is FACTUAL. I'm just find the post rather vague and a bit on the dramatic side.

Anonymous said...

To me, this show is about greed and materialism. It's about corporations giving freebies to the unworthy instead of the needy. It's about a family's selfish and unethical behavior.

I wish someone would make a list of all the products that were shown during the show or during the commercials, because I will make sure to never buy any of them.

I would have less of a problem with this show if the family made a deal with Johnson & Johnson (for example) that the product will only be shown on TV if the company donates 500 bottles of shampoo to the local domestic violence shelter. There is no reason the Gosselins cannot pay for their own products or donate whatever products they receive for free; they are by no means poor after all! It would have been great if they found a dentist who would do their whitening, but who would also donate his/her services to uninsured children who have major dental needs. There are so many opportunities for this show to do good, but instead, all we see is greed, greed and more greed. It's appalling.

I will no longer watch this show, and if it happens to be on, I will make sure to make note of all the products that I will no longer buy. Just like I do not buy books written by celebrities unless profits go to charity, I will no longer watch shows that are riddled with greed and materialism.

Foureyes said...

I received a copy of the Walt Disney World planning video and was surprised to see The Grand Wailea on Maui is a Disney Vacation Club resort. So if the vow renewal is indeed taking place at The Grand Wailea, it speaks volumes. Boycott Disney? Anyone? For me, hard to do because I would really love to visit WDW next year.

Pastorsgurl said...

WE are all just players in Jon and Kates world and their children are unknowingly living their lives like The Truman Show with Jim Carrey, except this is the "Gosselin Show" Remember how Truman didn't realize how he was just a catalyst for product placement? He thought he was just living his life, while everyone was watching his every, private moment. What will the children do when they realize their very surroundings were a way to sell more product for sponsors. At one point in the movie the creator of the Truman Show was willing to let him go into dangerous waters for ratings sake. Could this be life imitating art?

Anonymous said...

pastorsgurl said...

WE are all just players in Jon and Kates world and their children are unknowingly living their lives like The Truman Show...


Funny you should say that. My oldest son cynically called it the Truman Show the fist time he caught me watching it - which was a long time ago.

I learn so much from my kids.