Confessions of a Convert

I feel the need to write this, not so much for those who have been writing negative things about J&K+8 on TWoP and here and other boards, but mostly for those who defend them. Dare I say you are defending them blindly.

I love this show. Love, love, love this show. Whilst drowning in that love, I had a thick set of blinders on. Somehow I was equating the love of the show with the belief that IF I loved that show, then nothing was wrong on that show, or with the family.

I read everything on TWoP (yeah, everything). I was registered there, but didn't post much. I guess I posted enough to get myself banned, which shocked the hell out of me. I really thought those defending J&K were kind of bullet proofed from getting tossed. I really thought the mods there were just there to make sure nothing really bad got said about the family. I got banned for being off topic and for talking about another board. But I kept reading. It made me angry to see so many people have so many bad things to say about a family that 99.99% of them didn't know or had never met.

Yes, I was a sheeple. Yes, I yearned for J&K to come an speak locally so I could meet them. I wasn't going to bow down or kiss their ring or anything, but just thought they were great people with unusual circumstances. I thought they were great parents with great kids. I would have also fed the love offering basket. I totally believed that no one had a right to criticize them, that unless they walked a mile in their shoes, no one could snark them. I defended (at least to myself) everything they did, even wanting to keep on the nurse when the healthy tups were over a year old. "She wants the best for her kids", I told myself. "Maybe I would do the same thing if I had all those kids and felt I couldn't take care of them completely". Oh yeah, I was in serious denial. I defended her meltdowns, her belittling her husband and children. I could justify alienating her family and Jon's from those kids and themselves..."There must be a very valid reason the grandparents are not in their lives, and it can't all be Kate's fault". My tools of justification of the anger she apparently feels at her husband, kids and those around her ranged from having a bad day to PMS to exhaustion (yes, EXHAUSTION!), to trying to do her best for her kids. I supported her choice to try for "Just one more", believing she had no idea, even after over-ovulating, that she could have more than one.

I became so critical of those who criticized them. I would scream FOUL while reading some of the posts. I would think those posters had no life, and nothing good to say about anyone or anything, that they must be miserable people. GET A LIFE, I would almost shout at the computer screen.

This is hard to admit. Very hard. Christmas of 2007, I was actually thinking about buying gifts for all of the tups and the twins. I have kids of my own, I have nieces and nephews of my own to buy presents for. Then what would possess me to walk around Toys R Us while shopping for my own family to be seeing things and contemplate BUYING those things for the Gosselins? Geesh. I actually had an animal playset in my cart for Aaden and was in a midst of choosing between two toys for the twins, and had already picked out, but not ordered, three other gifts for them on Amazon. And right there, in Toys R Us, I had this huge WTF moment. It was like a got hit from behind the head with a cinder block. OK, puuuuut the gifts back. Eeeeempty the shopping cart on Amazon. Eaaaaasy does it. Gosh, I was thinking, "Am I brainwashed?". I think so. If I knew Jim Jones so many years ago, I would have drank the Kool Aid.

Anyway, that did not change my impression of the Gosselins or the show. It was just a nasty realization that I was struggling to pay for my own family's Christmas gifts. My husband had just lost his job and things were tight. Not starving to death tight,, but tight.

I continued along my merry way since Christmas, denying and justifying everything Gosselin. "Jon can't work, Kate needs him and he needs to spend time with those kids", "Kate deserves spa days, she works so hard" and on and on....you know the scripts.

My sister, who lives two states away also watched the show religiously and her and I would talk about that great show, and how awful those snarkers were. She was watching her area for the Gosselins to arrive, as devout a Catholic would pray that the Pope will visit their town.

Then, along came the Tups 4th birthday show. It was just not the straw that broke the camel's back, it was the 10 ton pickup truck that broke the camel's back. I had reached the denial breaking point. It all came into focus in 22 short minutes. I don't have to rehash that episode, you all know it, but it all came together like a huge puzzle. Kate is nothing but a fame whore, a money whore, a conceited bitch who feels like the world owes her everything she wants. She cares for no one except herself, and that includes her husband and the eight children that paid for spa visits, teeth whitening, striped hair, novelty T shirts and organic macaroons with their innocent childhood blood. That episode was horrible, and certainly nothing the viewers had never seen before, just in its concentrated state was so much more potent.

I truly believe those kids are in for a life of emotional hell if something isn't done and soon. The show needs to end, and give those kids back some kind of life. Kate needs some serious help that will most likely need to be done as an in-patient. Jon needs to grow a set, step up to the bat and be even more of a father than he has been. He needs to mend some fences with family and friends so he can have some help, as he will need to go back to work. Yes, Jon can be a lazy slug, but when it comes to those kids, I do believe his heart is in the right place.

I will never see this show the same again. My sister, independently of my thoughts, came to the same realization after this episode. It was really an eye opener, and I think even their biggest supporters (of which I was one) need to admit to themselves that this is a tragic situation. And by putting themselves on TV and doing national speaking tours, they have opened themselves up to criticism as well as they praise they so love. Is it our business to intervene and do what we can? YOU BET YOUR SWEET ASS IT IS. It is akin to seeing a man laying in the street who was just run over by a car. If you are aware of it, you need to do something about it. In the case of the Gosselins the best offense is to get the word out to as many people as possible to open their eyes, and through these forums is the very best way to accomplish this. God bless those children.

Submitted for publication by Nancy K.

176 comments:

mamamitch said...

Wonderful post. Thank you for sharing. I got banned from the TWOP forum as well when I shared my own AHA moment. On youtube, I found a home video of the Dilley's at Disneyworld and for comparision, I posted it on the TWOP site. The Dilley kids were sitting on a curb in non-matching outfits eating drippy ice cream bars. In another scene, the kids were standing by the castle smashing a birthday cake brought out to them by Mickey. The whole home video was so sweet and lovely. My point was that the Gosselins say they do the show because it is the only way to record their memories, but the home video by the Dilley's is far better than any of the JK+8 shows any day! I would rather have the control of the editing of my family memories and not be edited for shock value and ratings!

miemic said...

Bravo.

And for anyone that says "it wasn't really their birthday", well, we know that. But the impression was given that it WAS their birthday. To the kids, and the viewer.

I could go on. And on. But I'll stop and just thank you for an awesome post, from a recovering sheeple.

Type (little) a said...

Well said Nancy.

I think it was "Joel-gate" that turned me off to Kate permanently.

And I do think that Jon loves them all, very much. He just needs to grow up a little.

Paula said...

I finally started watching the show a few weeks ago. I fell in love with the kids and couldn't understand all the criticism aimed at Kate on the message boards. Then I watched the episode where they were buying beds for the kids. OMG, who in their right mind takes 8 small kids to a furniture store and then wastes everyones time while she can't decide what to get. I am sure they have internet access. Kate should have decided before they got to the store, left the kids at home, and been aware of the problems she was creating for the store staff, her husband, and her kids.

Mama Kate said...

Thanks for this post, Nancy. It is interesting to read the viewpoint of a former Gosselin-fan who "changed sides", so to speak. I can appreciate what you are saying because I used to like them, too, however I jumped sides a lot sooner than you. While I figured out sooner what sort of scum these people are, I think a lot of people share the same story as you. No one wants to think that anyone will use their kids for their own gain, but sadly, Jon and Kate seem to almost be begging for us to see what jerks they are. Fortunately, it seems that more and more people are finally seeing the light.

I just hope that when TLC finally figures out that America sees what nasty people the Gosselins are, that it isn't too late for those little children. I can only imagine the irreparable harm that all this has already caused them. And sadly, they will always have that loon for a mother. So sad....

Anonymous said...

Well it's nice to hear former Kate apologists finally see her for who she really is. Something we've known and sensed about for a long time- Kate is a bitch of the worst order and only cares for her needs to be met and doesn't notice other people, including her own children. Her husband is not being a good father figure by letting his wife walk all over him in front of the kids, especially the boys. I have been waiting for a long time for the producers to put an end to her constant whining and make the show about the kids and not J & K. They get way too much air time - they should have been secondary from the beginning. For all of you new converts, please write to TLC and tell them this as well! Seriously, that family is in danger of imploding and those kids have no idea.

minxie said...

Yours is a very honest post. I never was as devoted as you to J & K, but I thought the show was charming and my 9 year old daughter and I enjoyed watching it. It's become a train wreck, a greed-fest about these two parents living off their kids.

Anonymous said...

I'm also a convert. I nanny triplets and would stand in "awe" at Kates organization skills and ability to rear 8 children. Eventually I became appalled by the things she'd say to Jon...and then to the kids. The 4th Birthday WAS my breaking point. What 4 yr old child seriously turns down a Carnival for "a family day"? I'm curious what the kids DID get to do for their actual Birthday. Because that cupcake day was NOT any special treat...especially for the little boys. ='(

Anonymous said...

Very nice post Nancy. I didn't have a problem with these people until I saw the Toys R Us episode where Kate treated Jon like a dog. It was at that point I saw her for the horrible person she is.

I'm glad you finally saw the light. Some see it sooner than others. More and more people will eventually see it too. With each new show Kate just keeps digging herself in deeper and it ain't pretty. It's a sad state of affairs that is psychologically damaging to those children.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 7:18
According the the calendar shown on the horrible birthday episode, they went to Bounce U and Dinner on the actual day. I thought J&K were in MD on a speaking engagement but Jodi's sister, Julie, verified that J&K were home that day.

Anonymous said...

I just wanted to thank you for your post, because I feel the same way. I was a HUGE Kate fan. After my baby was born I would watch her show and just be awe-struck by her. She was my mom-hero, and she could do no wrong.
Then I watched the birthday show, and saw her tell one of the little girls not to eat anymore icing or fonadant or whatever, or she would get a tummy-ache. She has this look on her face that made me cringe. Eating disorder, here we come! I would never want to treat my baby or husband like she treats her family.

Anonymous said...

"BTW, I think her beloved "Hannie" is becoming really obnoxious. She is getting on my last nerve."

Aww, Hannah, nor any of the other children can really help how their life situation affects their behavior at this point. That is the reason people are so upset and post to this board. The tragedy of what crappy parenting can do to what appears to be 8 decent kids. Yeah, Mady seems intense and controlling but I don't think she's a bad kid. She just needs a break.
As for Jon, I've mentioned in a previous post elsewhere that he really needs to step it up. It perplexes and amazes me how he can live so obliviously to Kate's abusiveness. Occasionally following her lead and snarking a little too hard on his own children as well. The greediness that we attribute to Kate, what about Jon? He's collecting the benjamins too. He's getting the hair plugs and enjoying freebies I'm sure.
I get her. She seems like she has a degree of mental instability, which I don't fault her for. I myself have experience with panic and anxiety. I think she's a collector. She mentions in a episode about the babies being China dolls. I think when Cara and Mady stopped being babies Kate wanted more China dolls. Now that the tups are not babies anymore. The cracks are becoming more prominent. I know she brought it all upon herself, but the stress of having and yes, raising, all these kids is sure to make her mental instabilities worse.
But Jon, he has far more control over all of this situation than anyone seems to credit or blame him for.

The Truth Will Set You Free said...

Nancy, thank you for sharing your story. The love that everyone has for these children is overwhelming. I agree with Kate--these kids deserve the very best. IMO, every child deserves that. BUT I disagree with what "the best" is. No amount of money and fame will ever be able to replace the love, compassion, respect, security, etc. that a parent can provide. It's not about "things".

Your story has confirmed what I have believed for a long time. They receive gifts on just about a daily basis from fans of the show, so you're not alone. There are so many kind, loving people out there who want to do whatever they can to help this family. I hate the thought of people getting "played" and making sacrifices in their own families to help a family that they feel is in "need". Just the thought of it makes me really sad.

As I started to read these accounts and figure out what was going on, I actually started feeling a little guilty. I felt that by staying quiet, I was playing a part in the deception. I just couldn't turn a blind eye. If people want to support them and give to them, that's fine. I just want it to be an "educated" decision.

Momto4 said...

Great Post.
I too was a fan of the show. That was until Kate was downright insulting to families " with only 1 or 2 children ".
She acts like having 8 kids makes her some kind of superparent. Having any number of children is a challenge..whethter it be 1 or 8.

Anonymous said...

This show has degenerated from the one that first hit our TVs. I liked the show at first too. It was different and interesting. Gradually, however, Kate's so-called dry sense of humor began looking less and less like humor and too much like claw marks on the necks of her children and husband. Her control issues went beyond the thrice daily floor sweeping into cruelty--gum-gate, anyone? I didn't mind the tummy tuck--Becky Dilly got some free dentistry, after all, but Kate just can't say no to anything: teeth whitening, hair plugs (!) and way too many vacations and spa visits. The Gosselins have bought into their own celebrity and have no perspective left. They will drive away their "TV family" as certainly as they have their real friends, family, and neighbors.

Anonymous said...

I agree with most of the negative posts about Jon & Kate Gosselin. However, I have a problem with the name calling--like "Kate is a bitch." Ok, I can understand the reasoning behind it, but I believe it doesn't serve any purpose other than make blog readers think we are "haters" out to get them. I think it is better when we are critical of their improper behavior without the name calling. I think it is far more effective to give specific incidents. That is JMHO.

I think this is a wonderful post, by the way, and pretty much mirrors my own experience. I was already becoming a cynic when Jodi's sister began to come forward. This "birthday" episode put the frosting on the cake of my disillusionment!

Anonymous said...

I think what this family needs is a visit by the kind Rabbi Shlomo of Shalom in the Home. :)

OK, that was sort of a joke but there is always truth in jest. Wouldn't it be a fascinating episode to watch Jon & Kate go thru counseling and to watch Kate have to watch snippets of herself on video berating Jon? And to be confonted with her awful behavior by a trained counselor?

Pam said...

I too loved this show when I first started watching it this year. It came to my attention after watching the Gosselins on Oprah. But as weeks went by and I started watching reruns, I quickly realized that something was not quite right here. It bothered me that just because these people had eight children, it some how made them experts. It was very clear they were not. The whole "making memories" also was bothersome. They work too hard on this and force the issue for Reality TV. Meanwhile the kids are missing out on the true spontaneous heartfelt memories. The ones that just happen because you are with people you love and that love you. The ones that you do not have to create but create themselves because you are a happy balanced family. I felt Kate's explanation for why the grandparents were not involved was fishy and started googling. Wow did that open my eyes! I came across this site as well as Jodi's sister's site and I have a whole new perspective. Thank you TRUTH and GWOP for validating what my gut was already telling me. I do believe this show should come off the air until the kids are old enough to decide if this is what they want. And that would probably be at the age of 18.

FIONA said...

Nancy,

Thank-you for saying so well, what I think we all are feeling. Your post was heart felt and serious.

Fiona

Anonymous said...

Excellent post. Welcome to recovering Gosslings.
What staggered me about the 4th Bday epi (besides Aaden's obvious shock at not getting a cupcake) was when Kate suddenly grabbed one of the boys and 'kissed' him on the head. I watched it a couple of times to make sure that yes indeed the child jerk back. Probably from shock. It looked like Kate was holding him in position. She really needs to re-examine her life. And soul.

SecretMonkey said...

Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts and feelings. I liked the family until I discovered they were lying about the lack of college funds. Once the "aha" moment happens, there is no going back.

I have often wondered why people continue to defend Kate's actions so vehemently in the face of JoelGate, GumGate, etc. And why would they buy gifts for children who clearly have tons of toys already. Thank you for shedding a bit of light on that thinking.

Pam said...

Can you explain to me what JoelGate is? I saw the Gum episode but am not sure what everyone is referring to with Joel.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the well written and honest post, Nancy.

I, too, was an avid fan when the show began. I'm just glad so many of us are finally seeing the true colors of the Gosselins.

I wish all of the well meaning, generous people would donate to homeless shelters and soup kitchens before showering more gifts on an unappreciative, entitlement-minded family.

Type (little) a said...

Can you explain to me what JoelGate is? I saw the Gum episode but am not sure what everyone is referring to with Joel.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. What I referred to as Joel-gate is when Kate made Joel sleep on the laundry room floor for the "crime" of throwing up on his comforter.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, what is Joel-gate? BTW, about the "bitch" remark- I, myself am a bitch and it don't bother me to call myself that. However, it's in the same context as the song "I'm a bitch, I'm a mother, I'm a sinner and a saint..." However, Kate truly deserves the title and it's not us hating on her. She brought it on herself.

Anonymous said...

I love love loved...this show. At the beginning it was such a thrill to see these sweet little babies and I could appreciate how hard it must have been for them. I have 2 small grandbabies of my own, so I could somewhat understand and enjoy the development of tups. Then I noticed how people would 'do this for me, or someone comes and does that'...I just never noticed any appreciation for it and it could be all in the editing, I don't know. But show after show, the 'talking over' sounds very blah blah blah and such a 'whatever' attitude, so sad. It isn't even interesting to listen to, like it's no fun for them anymore. I know that it has been said but I really noticed it on July 7th show, I can't watch it anymore...teeth whitening???? Hair plugs???? What does this have to do with the kids or even the whole family? It just not the same...thanks

my3girls said...

Nancy K. - you had me at hello :) I also loved the show, thought J&K were amazing. Starting reading this blog and still wavered, tried to give Kate the benefit of the doubt while starting to see what people were saying.

I started to turn seeing the monetary aspects.. make $$ from the show, the freebies.. but then the nerve.. to exploit churchgoers with requests for "love offerings".. my guess is J&K are doing much better than many of the people giving love offerings.. as you said.. That is just appalling.

Then, my first true aha moment was the behind the scenes episode recently rerun. When you just watch the show.. the kids are so cute, etc.. but when you see that its the camera they are "playing with" you realize how exploited they are and how sad it is for them. Likewise, when you see Jen & the camera crew, etal. playing with and holding the kids, I realized that in addition to the babysitters, etc. Kate also has lots of help. Maybe being "on" for the cameras is exhausting her, but I can't imagine that raising the kids is exhausting her.


The last straw for me then was the 4th bday... 'nuff said.

Anonymous said...

Beargate had me a little iffy, cupcakegate pushed me over the edge. Not letting the boys eat their cupcakes? A little mean but I get it. Giving the girls cupcakes while the (icky) boys are still at the table? Bitch. Not giving them their cupcakes the next day? Total bitch.

I will always watch the show because to catch a glimpse of Collin saying something sweet, Alexis acting nutty, or Leah being her articulate little self makes my night, but I am done with Kate and Jon.

Yes, Jon too. I don't get why Jon gets a free pass. As the ninth child, he still seems to be stuck in the baby stage that comes before playing with another baby - he plays next to other babies. Wheelies on his bike (nobody wearing a helmet, natch), skating away from Mady and Cara, snatching the shield away from Collin in the basement when Collin appeared to be holding it up to show him, hiding in the closet and proclaiming, "I am awesome (at this game" and on...

FIONA said...

However, I have a problem with the name calling--like "Kate is a bitch." Ok, I can understand the reasoning behind it, but I believe it doesn't serve any purpose other than make blog readers think we are "haters" out to get them. I think it is better when we are critical of their improper behavior without the name calling. I think it is far more effective to give specific incidents.

I agree...I think that kind of language is unnessary,

FIONA said...

TRUTH-
Your story has confirmed what I have believed for a long time. They receive gifts on just about a daily basis from fans of the show, so you're not alone. There are so many kind, loving people out there who want to do whatever they can to help this family. I hate the thought of people getting "played" and making sacrifices in their own families to help a family that they feel is in "need". Just the thought of it makes me really sad


To think that people who are struggling themselves to donate to the G's...when in fact they do not need such donations is awful! The famous "who am I to say no" quote....makes me realize that Kate doesn't even care that she could be getting gifts from people who are less fortunate then herself and her kids. Because she leads us to believe that they are still strapped for money. Yes, 6 bikes cost alot...but they can afford it.

TRUTH-can you put to rest the issue that the tups are struggling with developmental issues? I personally have never seen it.

Thanks Again,

Fiona

FIONA said...

I actually know a woman who personally emailed Kate a year or so ago. She was caught up in giving to the family and wanted to give personal gifts to the kids. Her email asked Kate for suggestions. The response was, "please send gift cards to Wal-Mart or Target so that I can get them what they need when they need it".....Interpret that however you choose.

minxie said...

My feeling is that Kate has bought into the fantasy of perfect motherhood, perfect kids, everything picturesque and sweet. There is no such thing. If she let go of these expectations she might not be so irritable when others don't live up to her fantasy image of a perfect family. How does someone like that change, though? She doesn't even think there is a problem. It's getting worse and worse, however. Her fixation with "making memories" instead of just living her life has impacted on the entire family.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Excellent post. Welcome to recovering Gosslings.
What staggered me about the 4th Bday epi (besides Aaden's obvious shock at not getting a cupcake) was when Kate suddenly grabbed one of the boys and 'kissed' him on the head. I watched it a couple of times to make sure that yes indeed the child jerk back. Probably from shock. It looked like Kate was holding him in position. She really needs to re-examine her life. And soul.

That, my friend, was pure "damage control"! The boards have been lighting up with posts lately about how badly Kate treats the boys, and the lack of physical affection they get. Especially compared to the girls.

I noticed her giving Joel (I think) that "hug and hold" in the van during the cupcake episode and my first thought was "ok, someone IS reading the boards"!
And yes, the poor boy looked like he was being accosted. Truly sad that the only changes Kate seems willing to make are in front of the camera ONLY.

Guinevere said...

I was only at TWOP for a few weeks before the thread was shut down permanently, but what I saw was not "sheeple" or "J&K worshippers" v. the "haters", but people who IMO were reasonable v. people who had lost all sense of perspective about J&K. I would be happy to have a forum where the show can be discussed, and J&K's faults and virtues can be dissected. TWOP was not that place, because 80-90% of the posters (not a large number of women, but a small handful that seemed to post a great deal - some of them several times on a single page) were relentless in their vitriol towards J&K.

I recall being mocked when I even suggested that J&K HAD any virtues. From TWOP and GWOP, I've seen Kate compared to a child murderer. I've seen it said many times that she does not love her children (put as a statement of fact, not an opinion). People have proudly announced that they'd contacted CPS on the Gosselins, an action I can only describe as evil and malevolent. In another thread here just the other day, I read a post suggesting that someone should contact the IRS to try to get the Gosselins in trouble (the suggestion was that they don't report all of their donations and income from appearances). What is the point of that? To "help the kids" because you all "care so much about them"? No. It's to hurt and harass two people you don't even know.

I have also been put off by the blatant sexism shown towards J&K - the suggestion that because Kate dominates Jon, he was essentially castrated, and the relentless need to blame her for not just her actions, but his as well, and any joint actions. Kate is certainly responsible for her own behavior, but she's not solely responsible for the show and for everything that happens on it.

Nancy K., when I read your entry I was reminded that the flip side of extreme love is often extreme hate. I'm not sure what prompted you to feel such strong love for the Gosselins, but I'm pretty sure that it was something in you, not anything to do with them. I think your turning on them is the same thing - I think you need to look inside yourself and try to understand why you feel so very strongly about these people.

I like J&K. I like the show. I like the kids. I'd like to be able to talk rationally about the episodes. I have no problem criticizing some of J&K's behaviors on Monday night's show. I am not a "sheeple", I'm not blind. I don't defend them blindly. I defend actions like not giving the cupcakes to the kids that didn't eat their dinner, because in my eyes, those actions are defensible. I don't defend Kate for making things harder than they need to be, because she is the one creating the problem with her mess-phobia. I do feel for her a lot because I can see the anxiety and control issues behind the behavior.

My point is simply that if anyone is knee-jerk in their defense of J&K, I think it is likely because the criticisms of them are so intense, loud and unreasonable. I don't think it has to be blind worshippers v. haters, but I think the haters need to get a lot more reasonable before there can be productive discussion.

Guinevere said...

"I just hope that when TLC finally figures out that America sees what nasty people the Gosselins are, that it isn't too late for those little children."

I think it's a leap to assume that "America" as a whole cares about the Gosselins or even knows who they are. I don't know the shows' ratings, but it's not "American Idol". Furthermore, I think posters here make the mistake of thinking that everyone who watches hates J&K the way that they do. I don't think that's the case. Some people hate them, some people love them, some people have mixed feelings, and some people are fairly indifferent.

And just to follow up my previous poster re: the hyperbole used against the Gosselins (Kate in particular): I've also read today that Kate is psychotic and a monster. I really don't think such exaggerations are conducive to rational discussion.

iluveeyore said...

Please let us not forget Gap Kids. Ninety-nine percent of those kids' clothes seem to come free from Gap.

Kate said she's not the kind of person who would just throw clothes away. Suprisingly (!), she said that if one outfit had gum on it, she would have to throw away SIX outfits! How absurd! And the clothes that she is always concerned about are all free in the first place!

sabrinasmom said...

"Your story has confirmed what I have believed for a long time. They receive gifts on just about a daily basis from fans of the show, so you're not alone. There are so many kind, loving people out there who want to do whatever they can to help this family."

How many of these gifts do you think did not pass the Kate test?

Sorry, Aunt Gertrude, the six blankets you hand knit don't have the Gymboree label on them so they just won't do. Next time how about a Target gift card (times six)?

Anonymous said...

Nancy, I feel like I could have written your post! I too have been a big fan of the show since it began. I think the kids are adorable and love watching! I always thought Kate was a little off but I never thought too much about it. After watching the 4th birthday episode and seeing her deny the boys their birthday cupcakes I was really angry! I did some Googling yesterday and found this site and the blog of Jodi's sister. I couldn't believe the info I found! I honestly never looked too much into before, I just watched the show, but I was shocked. After reading about her taking Jodi out of the childrens' lives I will never look at her the same. She should be ashamed at putting money before her family and the welfare of her children.

Paper Dolls said...

Hear hear Guinevere! I agree with your comments whole heartedly.

While I may not agree with the Gosselin's parenting style, those children are not abused or neglected. They are fed well, have a warm and comfortable home, and are generally well taken care of. The notion that CPS needs to be involved is absurd and it makes me cringe that people are so quick to accuse them of abuse. We only see a very tiny, very edited snippet of their daily lives and to even suggest notifying CPS, let alone actually doing it, goes way beyond the responsibilities of people like us--- people who simply watch the program.

I also agree with other commenters who were put off by the use of the word "Bitch." I've always thought that people that resort to name calling simply lack the vocabulary and/or substantiating information to articulate their point, sort of like a seven-year-old would do. As another poster pointed out, actual facts would be much more effective.

That said, it doesn't mean that I agree with the choices the Gosselins have made. Do they appear to be selfish? Sure. Do I agree with some of the things they do with regard to their children? No, not necessarily. But I try to remember that I need to withhold judgment because I don't know enough about their real life to make an educated argument.

Take the show for what it's supposed to be: entertainment. If you enjoy it, great. Watch and enjoy. If it causes pain, grief, and upsets you to watch it, then don't. It's really that simple.

Darcy said...

Paperdolls, I completely agree with you. The mention of CPS is just absurd. There are children who are actually abused in the world. Maybe J&K are missing out on a lot of things with their kids but their kids are fed, warm & loved... a lot more than a lot of kids could hope for.

Anonymous said...

TLC loves the show. It brings in big bucks for the network. Even those who hate Kate still watch. They have already signed on for another season. The attention, good or bad. The better. TLC could care less about those kids.

hezbree said...

Kudos to Guenivere and Paper Dolls for their comments. When I first began reading this blog, I had mixed emotions about the show, and I still do. However, the more I visitied this site, the more negative emotions I began having about Kate...I was allowing myself to become a bit more biased and judgemental than I care to be.

While I don't always agree with Kate's actions on the show, she is by no means a monster. Does she profit off her children both emotionally and financially? Yes. Is there deception? Very Likely. Is she abusing her children? No. Abuse is a very strong word.

Anonymous said...

I second Guinevere and paper dolls. I don't particularly love Jon and Kate but the hate poured on them seems kind of irrational. Every time there is a neutral comment or a defense the poster is innundated with posts saying they don't understand the situation, etc. I also agree that it doesn't add much to the conversation to throw around words like bitch, or to say someone should cheat on their shrew wife. I think an honest discussion would include both sides--not being jumped on for offering a defense (no matter how slight) of the couple.

I, too, think the throwing about of abuse accusations is particularly frightening. I have said repeatedly that I don't know if they are abused or not, but from what I have seen they don't seem to be abused (this statement routinely causes outrage). I have seen abuse allegations that were not true and the emotional, psychological, and physical toll it takes on the entire family. I don't like seeing that happen to anyone, no matter how much I dislike them.

SmartyQ said...

Yes, Jon too. I don't get why Jon gets a free pass. As the ninth child, he still seems to be stuck in the baby stage that comes before playing with another baby - he plays next to other babies. Wheelies on his bike (nobody wearing a helmet, natch), skating away from Mady and Cara, snatching the shield away from Collin in the basement when Collin appeared to be holding it up to show him, hiding in the closet and proclaiming, "I am awesome (at this game" and on...

I too don't give Jon a pass on anything. He's the father of eight children. Presumably he knew how he got them and understood he was responsible for their wellbeing.

I remember the episode when Kate wanted to clean the garage, and Jon wanted to play, ostensibly with his children. Jon tired of Kate's nagging and took off on his rollerblades. Cara began following him on her scooter sans helmet, sans an adult paying attention to her safety. When he returned, he began furiously skipping rope close to the big van—obviously ignoring Kate and behaving one step above putting his fingers in his ears and singing, 'La la la. I can't hear you.'

WatchOverThem said...

I believe that the abuse and CPS comments were first mentioned on TWoP after potty-gate nudity on camera, whether we saw it or the actual nudity was edited out, cameras were still there. Then there was that YouTube thing with Hannah? and the full nudity that wasn't blurred out and people wondered where the clip came from, and how Jon and Kate could allow it to be up on YouTube for so long? I don't remember the abuse issue being about physical abuse, but nudity and privacy issues?

Anonymous said...

I am not in favor of name calling either, but "bitch", IMO is more of a personality trait than it is a name you call someone in disgust. Now calling someone the "C" word, or if you put the "F" word before bitch, or if you start stringing together curse words to be used as a title/name for someone, now IMO, we are getting into nasty name calling. At least from what I have learned, being a bitch, acting bitchy is almost synonymous with crab (you are a crab, you are acting crabby, whatever). Now, I wouldn't go up to my boss and call him a bitch, but we are reacting to some of Kate's personality traits, not really HER as a person. I hope that made sense. It sounded clearer in my head than it does in print :)

Anonymous said...

Watchoverthem said: "I don't remember the abuse issue being about physical abuse, but nudity and privacy issues?" It was mentioned several times under Tups Turn 4 that the denial of a cupcake was abusive. Abuse has been mentioned repeatedly, many of your own posts point out that you believe there is emotional abuse going on. Abuse allegations, of any type, are serious and have the potential to be very damaging if they aren't true. It has been thrown around very capriciously in the comments on this board, as well as on TWoP.

Anon. (1.43) said: "I am not in favor of name calling either, but "bitch", IMO is more of a personality trait than it is a name you call someone in disgust." "Bitch" is absolutely an insult thrown around in disgust. Being abrasive, is a trait, shyness, is a trait. Being a bitch is not. The fact is a "bitch" is a female dog, and it has negative connotations. It demeans women. Given the "Jon and Kae stop with the gender typing" it would seem that this kind of language is not in keeping with the overall spirit of such comments.

moi said...

While I may not agree with the Gosselin's parenting style, those children are not abused or neglected. They are fed well, have a warm and comfortable home, and are generally well taken care of.
While I do not at all advocate calling CPS for J/K/8, simply being fed, cleaned, and sheltered is probably something afforded most pets as well. I hope for some greater empathy, interaction, show of fairness, etc. when it comes to parents and their children, however.

Serena said...

While I do not at all advocate calling CPS for J/K/8, simply being fed, cleaned, and sheltered is probably something afforded most pets as well. I hope for some greater empathy, interaction, show of fairness, etc. when it comes to parents and their children, however.

My thoughts, too. I don't think the children are eligible for CPS intervention, however, defending their welfare by characterizing the care they receive with the same words I would use to characterize the care of a family dog isn't exactly a stellar defense.

Stephanie said...

Actually I'm an attorney and if a member of Jon and Kate's family, i.e. a grandparent, wanted to file a claim with their state's children and family services, I think there might be a legitimate, legal basis to investigate.

The hours (and conditions under which) they "work" probably violate child labor laws. Just because the children are not compensated does not mean they are not working according to a legal standard.

Also living on a defacto television set (have you seen the lighting?) and the subsequent privacy/development concerns might be enough for the state to step in and investigate on behalf of the grandparents or extended family who might be concerned.

Teresa said...

I stopped watching the show when Jon's hairplugs became more important than their sick children. J&K on a plane and leaving those sick little kids behind broke my heart. They could have rescheduled Jon's hairplugs but noooooo it was too freaking important. Plus it gave them time alone. *eye rolling*

One more thing lol When Kate was removing Jon's staples right there in front of the children was just downright cruel in my opinion!

Anonymous said...

Turning a home into a TV studio and allowing the filming of small children in private moments crosses the line. Their parents are not teaching them about boundaries and privacy, important for the development of a healthy psyche. I would never have dreamed of letting pictures of my kids in the bathroom or throwing a temper tantrum be put on TV and doubt that most of us would. Child actors have laws to offer them some protection, but the Gosselin kids appear to be fair game. I think this kind of exploitation falls into the spectrum of abuse. I am not advocating that the children should be removed from their parents. I do think the show needs to end. Let Jon and Kate go to work for a change and stop living off the privacy of their children. These children deserve a childhood away from the eyes of strangers who view them as nothing more than another evening of entertainment.

Anonymous said...

In the interest of accuracy, it was Bobbi McCaughey who received the free dental work on her front teeth. My error.

Anonymous said...

Guinevere?
Kate is a Classic Narcissist.
It's wonderful that you cannot see the abuse in Kate's parenting. It means you had a happy childhood and no narcissistic parents.
But for those who have narcissists in our families and those who professionally deal with them on the couch, we know the abuse in the Gosselin household is occurring.

Here is a link for you to read on the subject:
http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

Anonymous said...

Wonderful post... I feel that I could have written it myself. I felt the same way, and then yesterday watching the children making their treats, and seeing Kate yell at them about wanting to eat them, well I was done, just done. I am a Pre-School teacher (3,4,and 5's) and understand children and child-developemnt quite well, and it breaks my heart to watch the don't get dirty, you can't eat that, let's stay nice and clean crap. There isn't a school day that goes by that my students aren't covered in something messy! But that's what being a kid is about! I just think of all the little things she can do for the kids to have fun learning experiences from the comfort of thier home. Anyway the 4th B-Day episode really did it for me to. It truly makes me sad.

green said...

I have put a lot of thought into why this family brings out so many strongly held opinions. I want the best for this family. Jon is a great husband and hands-on father. Kate seemed as if she was holding everything together with her organization and schedules. All eight children are wonderful, beautiful, and healthy. They all have individual personalities with their own remarkable quirks. Some are loud, opinionated, and sassy. Others are quiet and kind and calm. They all march to their own beat. These children are funny, fun-loving, and active, everything you would want in a child. They can be unkind, they cry, wail, fight, whine, steal toys, they are not perfect but who is, after all they are kids so let them be kids.

I feel guilty having these opinions because I am not the parent to these children. I should not judge yet I cannot help myself. I would not even know this family except that they are on TV. I have watched episode after episode, thinking maybe it’s the editing (every show has a “bad” guy) maybe that explains it, it’s just a bad day, there are 8 children for one stay at home mother. I tell myself they are only showing us a small part of their lives, and on it goes until I just have to stop making excuses. Viewing the show once a week leaves a different impression than viewing it one episode after the other during the TLC marathons.

I have formed such strong opinions because I hope the children can keep the positive qualities that I see in them in each episode. I don’t want to find out in a future special episode 15 years from now that some or all of these 8 children have grown up to be like Kate.

I don’t want to see Leah giving Aaden “love taps” and laughing it off as no big deal, or Hannah correcting Joel’s use of the word “I”. No one wants to see Alexis yelling at Collin because he’s breathing to loud, or Collin telling Hannah he is in charge of her food portions because he wishes she looked the same as she did when she was three. Aaden pipes up to Joel that he needs to deal with his sister (Leah). Joel yells out that Aaden said the word “sister” so he loses. Although Cara and Mady were told in the beginning that the interview was meant for them, they didn’t eat their dinner or only ate some of their dinner or only ate their fruit but not the main part of the dinner (it’s not very clear) so they were excluded. It was just as well, because they found their outfits did not match or coordinate with what the sextuplets are wearing so the twins are sitting off to the side watching the interview take place. Meanwhile, Jon and Kate are seated beside the sextuplets with arms intertwined beaming with recently tooth-whitened smiles until Kate can’t help but interject a comment on how exhausting it was rearing MY children. Unfortunately, she can’t be heard over Hannah clapping out THIS.INTERVIEW.IS.NOT.PART.OF.MY.DAILY.SCHEDULE! at the same time Alexis screams out “HELLOOO!!! Collin is still breathing too loudly!” Jon says nothing but looks down at his Galatians 6:7 t-shirt.

If it is true that Kate and Jon have managed to run off family and friends that means the only influence in these children’s lives are Jon, Kate, and the people who either agree or go along with Kate’s wishes. There are very few episodes that show Jon opposing Kate. She is molding these children. They have already begun altering their behavior because of her. No one wants these likable children to grow up to become unlikable adults.

WatchingFromTheSidelines said...

Anonymous (4:29pm),

Are you a psychiatrist? If not, I don't think you should be "diagnosing" (and slandering) a person you have never met with a formal medical diagnosis.

BTW, I did read the link you provided. I also read the root website it is posted at because I like to know the source of the information I am reading.....the person(s) who maintains it seems very angry and sad. If you are Torrienne and it's your site (and it's hard to tell as you choose to post your strong views here anonymously), I'm very sad you had such an unhappy childhood and truly hope you have taken steps to have healthy and joyful life as an adult.

WatchingFromTheSidelines

just me said...

I just recently started watching the show. Can someone explain gumgate? I tried searching YouTube but all of the Jon and Kate videos there seem to be all rainbows and butterflies.

Anonymous said...

While I don't always agree with Kate's actions on the show, she is by no means a monster. Does she profit off her children both emotionally and financially? Yes. Is there deception? Very Likely. Is she abusing her children? No. Abuse is a very strong word.

I think everyone is getting caught up in semantics - while they are not abusive in the physical sense as was noted with the fed, clothed and sheltered statement there are certainly forms of verbal and emotional abuse occurring ON CAMERA! Therefore, it is then turned over to public opinion. That is what they felt was a worthy and accurate portrayal of their interactions. With all due respect, I do not think that anybody was implying that the mere withholding of the cupcakes was "abusive" it is the cumulative, insidious and consistent behavior and language towards these children that sends up red flags. I believe 110% that these children are being emotionally and verbally abused - not to warrant them being taken away but enough to scar a fragile little child forever. I also believe that making a profit off of your children, while not a crime, is disturbing on many, many levels.

Anonymous said...

Gum-gate, a classic TV moment. Jon and Kate go somewhere. They leave the tups with Aunt Jodi. Jodi lets them have chewing gum. They get some on their clothes and on Collin's (?) beloved stuffed teddy bear. Kate goes nuts. Although there is gum on only a couple of items of clothing, Kate declares that all the clothes have to go because because she can't break up a set of six matching outfits. Kate stands at the sink smearing the teddy with organic peanut butter (I kid you not--she has to tell us) while she glares at the teddy's owner and glares at him and makes several threats to throw the bear away, right in the trashcan, because of the GUM--the little scofflaw. Mady comes to the rescue to tell her mother that Collin loves the bear and plays with it every morning. Kate, elbow deep in peanut butter, telephones Aunt Jodi to tell her gum is a no-no. Thank you for babysitting--no, that wasn't mentioned. The bear is returned after the drama plays itself out.

Anonymous said...

My sister and I were raised by a narcissistic mother who was physically and emotionally abused herself as a child. She was never physical with us, but her words cut to the core. It wasn't all day, every day either because there were many good times. Still, both my sister and I through therapy, medication, and much soul-searching have gone through a lot and come out on the other end. It hurts me to see Kate act the way she does and Jon sit there and not do something about it. Other than the gaggle of kids and the TV gig, my family could have been Jon and Kate. Every child in a family like this will come out differently, of course, but, trust me, this is not a healthy family. Sorry to be so personal, but when you live it, you know it.

FIONA said...

While in Aunt Jodi's care she gave the tups a gumball...one gumball. Colin got 2 or 3 specks smaller than a dime on his "comfort item"...his bear buddy. Joel got a speck or 2 on his socks. Kate FREAKED OUT on Joel and even more so on Colin, threatening to THROW OUT his bear. After using organic peanut butter and screaming at Mady for trying to rationalize to Mother that is wasn't Colin's fault. She yelled at Mady, that "WE DON'T CHEW GUM WHEN WE ARE 3"...even tho they had on airplane rides. The fact that an adult gave the kids gum didn't seem to matter to Mother, because she was busy needing to pack for an inspirational speaking engagement. The cherry on top was when she called Jodi and condescendingly told her not to give the tups gum anymore. Wait till you see it on reruns...it is one of Mother's worst moments.

FIONA said...

I think everyone is getting caught up in semantics - while they are not abusive in the physical sense as was noted with the fed, clothed and sheltered statement there are certainly forms of verbal and emotional abuse occurring ON CAMERA! Therefore, it is then turned over to public opinion. That is what they felt was a worthy and accurate portrayal of their interactions. With all due respect, I do not think that anybody was implying that the mere withholding of the cupcakes was "abusive" it is the cumulative, insidious and consistent behavior and language towards these children that sends up red flags. I believe 110% that these children are being emotionally and verbally abused - not to warrant them being taken away but enough to scar a fragile little child forever. I also believe that making a profit off of your children, while not a crime, is disturbing on many, many levels


GREAT POST-Serena, will you repost this every morning please. Just because a kid is beaten or other hideous acts....does not mean other forms of abuse aren't happening!!!! Enough! If this site is too much for some of you, maybe you need to find a more kind and gentler site and discuss Kate's many virtues. I for one can't think of one and that is the honest to God's truth!!!!

Sadie said...

This family makes me sick. Let me rephrase that...Jon and Kate make me sick. This situation, though "cute" in the beginning has just turned into a nightmare. And what's even worse is the two of them think their viewers will go for this! We're not stupid. I've been hesistant of them for a while now and the last few episodes are just the final turning points. No wonder they have such a ridiculous speaking schedule - they're trying to rake in as much money as they can! What family with eight children, all of which are very young, can go away EVERY weekend for the rest of this year?! I went to a website that J&K will be speaking at and this is what it said..."this event is free, but please come prepared to give in a love offering toward the Gosselin’s." Are you serious!? I wouldn't be surprised if they walked around as these baskets were being passed from each person making sure they put SOMETHING in there. Horrible, horrible people. But karma will come back to bite them for all of this.

laura linger said...

Nancy:

Right on.

sugarjay said...

I've called Kate a bitch because it's the first word that comes to mind when I watch her. It's the sneering, the sarcasm, the condescending remarks, the grammar correction, the nitpicking, how she's a killjoy. I don't think it's crazy for people to kind of get worked up over what we see on tv. The 4th birthday episode was really sad IMO. The one tup was having fun decorating his cupcake and what did his mother do? She told him his nails were dirty and she wouldn't eat anything he made. Seriously, would it have killed her to tell her son the cupcake was beautiful and he did a good job on it? It seemed like she was doing her best to ruin everone's good time at the bakery and then she did ruin the boys day when she wouldn't even let them have their own birthday cupcake!

These kids are only four years old, they took a seventy five mile car ride so the show could have footage of them making cupcakes and then they couldn't even eat one? So I don't really care to split hairs about whether it's passive aggressive, mean, obnoxious, rude, bitchy, or whatever.

It REALLY ticks me off that these kids are getting set up to do things that are messy and will therefore set Kate off. That is so unfair to those children IMO. I hope J & K enjoy all those perks they're getting like hair transplants, teeth whitening and the like. I definately don't consider them freebies because it seems to me that their kids are paying for all of those things, and dearly.

WatchOverThem said...

Anon 2:03--Yes, I have spoken about emotional abuse, and I don't know if many would disagree that emotional abuse doesn't go on with this family, at times, as in many families. Commenting about emotionally abusive incidents and this and that is different than reporting to CPS with removal of children from the home as a goal. Commenting on a blog about bad parental behavior, may or may not prompt parenting classes or counseling as a goal at some point, but it's nothing I have personally posted about. Having the parents come to their own understanding of the issues, prompting behavior changes they could make themselves could also be a goal. Commenting and discussing certain incidents in the hope of bringing light and understanding to a situation isn't a bad thing. Will the parents read and respond to such feedback? Maybe, you never know. None of my comments or posts have advocated removal of the children in any way. In my last comment here, I was saying that the specific behavior that prompted CPS comments at TWoP involved nudity and filming of children in private and unclothed situations, a very specific and illegal instance at that time. Child nudity in film is a legal issue and much different than discussing the harsh behavior Kate doles out here and there, now and again, or more often than not. One is illegal, the other just bad behavior that may or may not develop into further issues in the future. I have posted about the child labor laws and reality television, never removal of children from the home. We are using the word abuse to describe many instances and degrees of behavior. Abuse, as a word encompasses many levels and variations, and I think we are getting lost in semantics.

Caitlin said...

The kids went to a bakery to make cupcakes! Did she honestly think that there wasn't going to be mess at all? The Crayola Factory incident was just too much for me to take...you take your kids to a place where markers, crayons a.k.a things that make messes, and then have a meltdown because you don't want them touching anything or getting dirty. THEN DON'T TAKE THEM TO PLACES LIKE THAT! It just gets me so heated because why tease them like that? Dangle that sweet, yummy cupcake in front of them and when they go to reach for it, pull it away. Same premise. It's disgusting.

Anonymous said...

I just saw a rerun of the cupcakegate and its even worse than I remembered. After Aaden says "I don't get my cupcake?" He goes "Ooh" Joel says "I ate my chicken." Kate says "You ate nothing" which I think is a lie and my wonderful Collin's face breaks up and as usual, he tries not to cry. Mean, spitfull and nasty.

Anonymous said...

Someone mentioned the way Kate grabbed one of the boys heads only to then give him a kiss - did anyone who has tivo pause on her face. I promise you I am not being dramatic when I say it gave me a chill. I really believe she is absolutely seething because the producers are telling her that her supermommy status is not up to par and that she needs to show more affection to her boys, specifically. I think that is where the anger towards them at the bakery and at dinner comes from and I think it continued long after the filming. Also, for the life of me I can not remember one time that Kate is shown holding one of the boys. I am totally open to being corrected in fact, I hope that I am wrong. Honestly, if she doesn't do it on film where it would repair her image and make her look better then are we to really believe she becomes super affectionate off camera. Oh, and before someone mentions it yes, many people are unaffectionate, my mother in law springs to mind, and that didn't negatively affect my husband, I think:) The problem lies in the fact that she does hold and show affection to the girls - totally exclusionary and damaging in my opinion. I will also say that the total ignoring of Joel when he asked if she will miss him while melodramatically hugging one of the girls is still one of the saddest things I have ever seen even more than the gum incident because she treats Joel like a total non-entity.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone else get the feeling that this upcoming season will be their last? The kids ages are getting up there, school's around the corner, the increased amount of episodes, I dunno.

If you think about it, the Gosselins have made a big wack of cash, especially if it's true that they're getting $60,000 per episode this year (isn't it 50 shows for the new season?). That's a cool 3 million dollars. Why would they need to do more?

Plus the fact they have built a massive fan base to continue on with their talk circuit, the book & dvds, they don't need a show now.

TLC could continue to do a couple specials each year (the tups birthday, Christmas) and keep the funds (and the sponsors) flowing for years, without having to disrupt their lives so much as they are now.

I don't know, my money is this year's it.

Anonymous said...

So, this is my first post because I feel that something must be said, even if it has been said 100 times all ready. Firstly, I do not think that I have to spell out all my feelings about this episode, but I will say I wanted to cry while watching it. Yes, I have been emotionally abused by my mother, and let me tell you there are many times in my life that I would have rather been beaten than listen to the words that came out of her mouth. Being a very emotional and empathetic person has probably led me to the place I am in today so discredit me if you will, but until you've been there you do not know what it is like.

What is being done to these children can be, more often than not, dehabilitating to a young impressionable mind. Emotional scars from anger, lack of affection, hurtful language etc. are just as real and sometimes more painful than physical ones. Every night I pray to God that these children come out of this experience with the knowledge that people cared for them because I do not know if all of them will learn that from their relatives (especially if Jodi is out of their lives). Secondly, I do realize that we are not seeing their entire lives and I was disillusioned when I began watching (yes I was a sheeple for a few episodes), but now I can only hope that what we don't see is better than what we do (highly unlikely).


In writing this I did not mean to offend, just simply state that these children are suffering from emotional abuse and there will be ramifications down the line. This was the icing on my cup cake and I don't know if I can stand idly by and watch this family's fall from grace. To Jon and Kate: you're still young...the kids are still young and there is always hope, and I pray that you find enlightenment on your journey.

God Bless to all!

Anonymous said...

It was very telling to me in the music video where she didn't hug or kiss a boy once. They showed her with girls in her lap, sharing a mike, kisses...the works. But nothing for the boys. Joel in particular just breaks my heart.

jenmarie286 said...

I really think a lot of you have so much hate or utter dislike for Kate that you fail to see how ridiculous you are being about the gum deal.

First of all, Jodi should have known better than to give 6 three-year-olds gum on THEIR word that their mother lets them. Secondly, you all seem to forget that while Kate was supposedly threatening to throw away the bear that she was simultaneously trying to get the gum off of it with ice and peanut butter. Lastly, I think Kate had every right to be annoyed with Jodi for giving the kids gum without asking her--you guys seem to be really big on CPS, and you never noticed how easily those kids could've choked on the gum that Jodi gave them? She obviously wasn't watching them close enough to prevent ruining their clothes, so why would she notice if one of them were choking?

I also believe that having to remove gum from six outfits would piss anyone off. I've read other posts (or comments, I'm not sure) that claim that Kate put Jodi down for giving them the gum--did we see the same episode? Kate is always singing Jodi's praises, talking about how much she loves their children, and this episode was no different. She definitely did not "scold" or demean Jodi for giving them gum, she just called and asked that she not do it again. What was she supposed to do?

Finally, put yourself in her situation. I hardly believe anyone would be the picture of calm when they have to get gum out of six outfits, especially when the situation could've been prevented with a little common sense.

Anonymous said...

I'm not here to support or not support the Gosselins. But I have to say two things that are REALLY bothering me about what everyone is saying.

1) Kate doesn't edit the show. Just because you don't see her with the boys doesn't mean she's not with them and hugging them and kissing them. Don't assume because you don't see it, it's not happening. And I'm not saying it is happening. I don't know that it is. Anymore than you all can't know that it's not!

2) Those kids look pretty damn happy to me. In spite of all of the 'emotional abuse' everyone keeps talking about, those kids are always smiling and are probably the most lovable and loving siblings I have ever seen. You can't force kids to go up to each other to see how they're doing and make them feel better (like you've seen in episodes when kids are the corner). Those kids are so loving and so obviously all well cared and loved, that I think it's ignorant and unfair to assume they're leading miserable lives.

I don't think they're a family that is necessarily the epitome of perfection. I'm not condoning or supporting anything they do or don't do. All I'm saying is, passing judgement on people you don't know based on snippets the editors let you see of their lives is pretty lame. I can't say they're perfect. But I can't say they're evil and awful. I don't know them and neither do you.

NewMom08 said...

Something comes to mind that I have been contemplating over the last day or so...
With regard to reality TV, I think that the reason why many who have really loved the show have been so torn as to where their loyalties lie is because often times in reality tv land, the editors choose a persona for a person involved and edit the show orshows to fit that mold. Initially, I think many have thought that this was the case with Kate. I and others, however, now believe that it is not Kate becoming the persona or the editors editing in the persona...rather Kate was always the persona we see....TIMES TEN when she is in private. She is not contrived or edited in for the sake of good tv. If anything, her negativity and bogus parenting skills are lessened with editing. What gets me though are the blatant LIES. Case in point: Complaining to Jon at the bakery that SHE is the one who spends ALL DAY doing laundry. C'mon Kate.....is that really the example that you want to set for your kids.

Anonymous said...

Nancy-I felt exactly the same as you before the cupcake show and after. We can complain and state negative things about innocent children all day long- but the only way to really show them how we feel is DON'T WATCH. I am not watching anymore. I felt like someone had kicked me in the stomach after the cupcake show. It was awful to watch. TURN IT OFF!

Anonymous said...

Response to JenMarie re: GumGate

First of all, there wasn't gum on 6 outfits. There was a small amount of gum on Joel's sock and a bit on Collin's bear. Kate threw the socks away. Kate mentioned the 6 outfits, because if one got ruined by gum, she would have to throw away all six, as they are matching. We have seen the tups have gum on planes, and also on the ski trip. I have to believe there were other times we didn't see. It wasn't like gum had never passed through their lips. And I'm not so sure it has been made clear to the tups that gum is only for planes, or certain exception times. When asked if they could chew they all said yes. I'm not sure where Cara was in the house, but I would think she would have said something if it was truly contraband. One of the problems in the Gosselin house is inconsistency (we can have ice cream for dinner on one night, but can't have your birthday cupcake without having a subjectively clean plate, decided by Kate) (just to interject, on cupcakegate, the no cupcake boys seemed to have eaten more than Hannah and Hannah got the treat. And no, even spoon feeding her didn't do it, if you watch closely, her lips were tightly closed and she refused to take the food being fed to her, yet 60 seconds later, she's gobbling up a cupcake). Anyway, back on track, there is no consistency in that house, and the tups saying yes to gum didn't seem that wrong. Either Kate was going to clean the bear, or she was going to chuck out the bear. She was cleaning away, yet still threatening to heave it. Talk about emotional torture (I'll avoid the word abuse, so many people have a problem with that word). And yes, it as torture to him, look at that face. Either throw it away, if you must, Kate, and let the boy move on, or clean it and shut the h*ll up instead of every 5 seconds telling him to kiss the bear goodbye, it's going in the trash, it's gone, I'm throwing it away...on and on. On a certain level, Kate was enjoying the h*ll out of that whole bear thing. I've asked myself what I would done in the same scenario. I would have cut the gum off of the bear, applied a small patch, and that would be known as the gum boo-boo and would also serve as a constant reminder to the child, the consequences of gum. No yelling, no crying, no screaming, just a solution.

iluveeyore said...

"On a certain level, Kate was enjoying the h*ll out of that whole bear thing."

On a certain level, both Kate AND Jon were enjoying the hell out of that whole cupcake thing! They could have told the boys that they were excused from the table before the girls started eating the cupcakes. And I DID see Hannah keeping her lips pressed together when Mady was supposedly feeding her. I think I've mentioned it here before. I swear, Jon was smirking as we watched the boys cry. Both parents are sickos.

Serena said...

I think it's ignorant and unfair to assume they're leading miserable lives.

I think they will someday be writing the same kind of letters the Dionne quintuplets wrote, exhorting other parents of multiples not to ruin their children's lives they way THEIRS were ruined.

passing judgement on people you don't know based on snippets the editors let you see of their lives is pretty lame

I pass judgments on known facts, not just snippets. Editing cannot create facts out of thin air.

That the children are being forced to grow up on a studio set, in a public fishbowl, is a FACT.

That the children are denied the same protections that were fought for very hard by advocates of their paid peers in the industry is a FACT.

That Jon and Kate deceive the public in a way that coaxes misguided and unneeded donations out of them is a FACT.

That Jon and Kate chase one vain, unnecessary cosmetic procedure after another, on top of an already overcrowded speaking schedule, is a FACT.

That Kate role models caustic, snide, derogatory, and hostile behavior toward Jon in front of the children, telling them that he is mean and they should ignore him, is a FACT.

Anonymous said...

iluveeyore, I think you are on to something. I do think J&K enjoy the reactions they get from their children when they create these scenarios. It's not really WANTING to hurt their children, but I believe it to be a control issue and the pleasure is derived from realizing that you have controlled and navigated a situation to a pre-concieved end, even if it means many of the players are emotionally hurt and upset. Yes, I did see a certain subtle happy look on Jon's face when those boys were hurting. And people can't see this is abuse?

sugarjay said...

Jenmarie, are you kidding me? It's just another example of Kate's hypocracy that the she gives them gum on airplanes but when Jodi commits the offense of giving out one gumball she stars screaming WHO GIVES GUM TO A THREE YEAR OLD? When SHE HERSELF has given gum to her three year olds. And her no balls husband sits right beside her in the interview when he himself has given Alexis gum on the ski trip. So I think it's possible that the tups did think they could have gum at Aunt Jodi's.

Instead of defending a grown woman ranting like a lunatic and threatening her kids security item while he cries for it, maybe you should look at the other side of the situation? Aunt Jodi took in SEVEN other kids on top of her own FOUR that day so that Kate and Jon could film Mady's special day. If someone watched eleven kids at one time as a favor to me so I could rake in money hand over fist with my reality show, I'd be thankful and certainly wouldn't be rude to her about it. Do you think Kate ever watches Jodi's four kids on top of her own eight? I highly doubt that, she is EXHAUSTED with her Queen Bee status after all.

Who wants to bet that the clothing which I seriously doubt even had any gum on it (other than the socks and the bear) was free anyway?

Anonymous said...

I used to think Kate was very negative and nasty but after watching for awhile I feel totally different. Yes she gets smart with Jon but he also gives it right back. They work well together and their spats are quite comical. I love the kids, they are so cute and I have no idea where people are seeing this abuse. They are happy healthy well taken care of children and they are NORMAL kids with normal parents. If they accept money for speaking engagements so what? If you dont want to pay dont go! If he can afford to quit his job so what! i wish I could do that! Kate has to be strict because if she is too lenient with 8 kids they will be out of control. Kids need structure and routine. If I could get a free tummy tuck I would do it, same with the hair plus and teeth whitenning. So the kids were sick, they had a capable babysitter and that was the time they were allotted to get the procedures done. It's not like the kids were in the hospital. People actually called CPS on this family? That's ludicrous and petty and CPS has more important things to do with their time.

Anonymous said...

I don't have a problem with Kate's mentioning the gum to Jodi. I have a problem with Kate's rage and threats towards Colin about his bear. If she just felt put out about having to get off her rear end and take care of something and had no intention of throwing away the bear, why did she threaten and carry on? Did little Colin think, Oh, well, there she goes again. He didn't know she was just dumping her emotions on him. A raging parent looks huge to a small child. She could have snipped the gum off the bear with a pair of scissors. The Mommy Dearest scene was very sad. This is the incident that really turned me against the show.

sabrinasmom said...

"those kids are always smiling and are probably the most lovable and loving siblings I have ever seen."

Except for the hitting and screaming. There was one episode when Aaden hit one of the girls (Alexis?) - she says "We don't hit" and then proceeds to bop him on the head. This is just a prime example of "do as I say, not as I do." and hypocrisy these kids are exposed to. Those kids have been "told" not to hit, but as they see their mom doing it to their dad they "see" that it is ok.

I want to say something about the money and freebies. Yes, it is a person's choice whether to watch the show, go to a speaking engagement, or give money or gifts. No one wants to be told how to spend his or her money. The problem I have is the misrepresentation. Jon and Kate cry "poor", "foul" (it was Pennsylvanias "responsibility" to provide nursing care for the tups), etc. to gain sympathy and make people reach deeper into their pockets. This is certainly not the case.

Keep it real. I say. Tell the truth.

I am sure there are enough Jon and Kate fans to support them if they say "the kids have money, but we want more. More spa days, more golf days, we don't have a problem building our empire on the backs of our kids."

I've seen (or read) the absolute devotion these people have for Jon and Kate (anyone who thinks Kate is an "inspiration" falls into that category).

Anonymous said...

Wow, just wow. While I could never do a reality show, I also don't think I can sit here and call Kate this or that. From the shows I've seen (I'm not much of a TV person), I have heard her call herself controlling. We all have our flaws and I can't fault someone who is by nature controlling for trying to "make memories" or give her kids what she considers a great childhood. I disagree with her, but I can't see how any of this is outside her nature.

Quite frankly, if I was saddled with the same responsibility, I know the worst would come rearing it's ugly head at me. Why she would choose to put this on TV is beyond me, but whatever.

Anonymous said...

I certainly do not find J & K's 'spats' to be of any comedic value whatsoever. I find nothing comedic about the constant argumentative, demeaning, childish, and belittling behavior that J & K so often express to each other in front of their children. The children have no concept of whether the negative behavior between their parents is scripted or not, not to mention 'comical'. If in fact much of the negative behavior we witness between J & K is scripted in an attempt to encourage drama or boost ratings, for J & K and the camera/production crew to include young impressionable children as onlookers to such behavior is beyond disturbing! IMO, this is just one example of why many feel so passionately about the necessity for specific laws protecting children ie, the Gosselins of reality shows.

minxie said...

Anon 9:04--I don't find the "spats" entertaining either, not in the least. What started out as fairly mild, occasional bickering (which all spouses can identify with) has degenerated into sour, mean-spirited sniping between two people who seem like they can barely stand each other. Jon's sullen eye-rolling and Kate's hitting and barking orders--UGH! Who wants to watch that? It's like the marriage is coming apart before the cameras. I finally saw the depressing 4th birthday episode and I couldn't believe how far the show had strayed from its original tone. Instead of watching the family going about its normal business, we get these fake outings with two parents who are making their living off their kids' lives, all while arguing and acting out mini-dramas for the camera. There's little reality at all anymore. Grim.

Guinevere said...

If this site is too much for some of you, maybe you need to find a more kind and gentler site and discuss Kate's many virtues.

Is this the official position of the blog owners? I was under the impression that dissenting opinions were allowed, but if I'm mistaken, please tell me. I would think that people who have such very strong opinions would be secure enough in them to have them challenged or disagreed with, but if it is required that everyone agree on J&K, I can certainly go elsewhere.

One of the problems in the Gosselin house is inconsistency (we can have ice cream for dinner on one night, but can't have your birthday cupcake without having a subjectively clean plate, decided by Kate)

Are you suggesting that because the children were allowed to have ice cream for dinner one night, they should be allowed to have it every night, or thus be called inconsistent? I really disagree. The ice cream for dinner thing was a rare, special treat (yes, I'm using Kate's terminology here); the "no dessert if you don't eat a reasonable amount of dinner" appears to be a regular rule. At least that's what J&K both said several times in the episode.

As for having a "subjectively clean plate", I'm not sure how else you would determine it. Do you expect Kate to weigh the food before and after? I really doubt Kate is unique in making such subjective judgments about whether her kids have eaten enough. I think plenty of parents make such judgments every day with their young kids.

(just to interject, on cupcakegate, the no cupcake boys seemed to have eaten more than Hannah and Hannah got the treat. And no, even spoon feeding her didn't do it, if you watch closely, her lips were tightly closed and she refused to take the food being fed to her, yet 60 seconds later, she's gobbling up a cupcake).

Where did you see that the boys ate more? I saw that their plates had already been taken away, so I'm not sure how you'd be able to tell that they ate more. I saw one of them (I think it was Aaden) eating fruit, but I think that's just part of dinner, or maybe the alternative to dessert if they don't eat the rest of their dinner.

The only child's plate I saw clearly was Hannah's, and it looked to me like she had eaten some of her food. I don't think there is evidence of favoritism here - I know some people think Kate favors the girls, and Hannah in particular, but I don't see any evidence to support it in this instance. Kate clearly said that the boys hadn't eaten enough, or even made an effort, and I don't think there is any reason to disbelieve her.

FIONA said...

Secondly, you all seem to forget that while Kate was supposedly threatening to throw away the bear that she was simultaneously trying to get the gum off of it with ice and peanut butter.

NOOO...known of us have forgotten anything about this episode, including Jodi. If you read her sister's blog there is a new post about this horrendous incident. So what if Kate, was cleaning the peanut butter off....she was still terrorizing Colin the WHOLE time. I don't treat my kids like that, do you? I hope not. And Kate did not have to clean up six free outfits, just Colin's favorite bear. She threw away Joel's socks...so much for her practicality she professes so much.

You aren't going to get any takers on your post-sorry!

FIONA said...

I've asked myself what I would done in the same scenario. I would have cut the gum off of the bear, applied a small patch, and that would be known as the gum boo-boo and would also serve as a constant reminder to the child, the consequences of gum. No yelling, no crying, no screaming, just a solution.

I can't possibly remember how many times I had to patch up my daughters bear, Art. Who is now 18 years old and heading off for college. I would NEVER ever have thrown him out!

aly,benji n siennas mom said...

Fiona I’m in the same boat! I would never EVER tell my kids I’m going to throw something away that they cherish! I still have my pillow person AMY) who remembers that I hope a lot of you I don’t want to feel old LOL) ! My mom had to do serious surgeries to her for many years and now my daughter Alyssa enjoys "Amy" she also has a baby blanket that is really soft that I have to wash every other day (as well as my youngest) LOL. And my son has this little green frog that he takes with him EVRYWHERE! And he has the habit to put his finger around the strings and twirl so imagine the surgeries I now have to do (thankfully my mom taught me how to sow LOL).

Serena said...

If this site is too much for some of you, maybe you need to find a more kind and gentler site and discuss Kate's many virtues.

Is this the official position of the blog owners? I was under the impression that dissenting opinions were allowed, but if I'm mistaken, please tell me.

No that isn't our official position. We address this in the first question in the FAQ section in our sidebar.

FIONA said...

If in fact much of the negative behavior we witness between J & K is scripted in an attempt to encourage drama or boost ratings


Sadly, we do know that it is NOT scripted and in fact the way they normally act.

Serena said...

you all seem to forget that while Kate was supposedly threatening to throw away the bear that she was simultaneously trying to get the gum off of it with ice and peanut butter.

And you seem to forget that while Kate was ridiculously rubbing oily peanut butter on a stuffed animal, she was YELLING at a three-year-old and staging a mock destruction of his comfort item... a three-year-old who had no way of knowing she might be bluffing.

-you guys seem to be really big on CPS,

There are close to 2,000 comments posted on this blog, and probably 3 or 4 of them mentioned CPS. Saying "you guys" is broadbrushing a LOT of people with a characteristic that only a very few have displayed.

and you never noticed how easily those kids could've choked on the gum

Not nearly as easily as Aaden could have choked on the popcorn he was stuffing into his mout while lying flat on his back during Family Movie Night.

She obviously wasn't watching them close enough to prevent ruining their clothes,

In what universe is a few smidges of gum on a pair of socks and on a teddy bear the equivalent of six ruined outfits?

I also believe that having to remove gum from six outfits would piss anyone off.

Well then it's a good thing that this wasn't necessary as that's not what happened. Although from Kate's reaction I can see why a person would think that.

I hardly believe anyone would be the picture of calm when they have to get gum out of six outfits,

And I can hardly believe anyone would go ballistic over a little gum on a pair of socks and on a teddy bear that a quick snip of scissors could have fixed. But, that's Kate.

minxie said...

I had read about Cupcakegate here before seeing it, so I knew what to expect. J & K changed their cleaning-the-plate "rules" every other second. The kids were supposed to finish dinner, no ifs ands or buts. But Kate helped feed "Hannie", who still didn't finish hers. But she got a cupcake because she "tried" to finish. I wonder if Kate would sit and feed Joel, then rationalize that he "tried" to finish dinner, even when he didn't? I don't care what so-called rules they set, but Kate's blatant favoritism towards the girls, and especially Hannah, gets more galling each week. And the nonsense of letting Hannah wear waist-length hair just because SHE doesn't want to get it cut--are you kidding me?

sugarjay said...

Anonymous at 8:42,

What memories do you think these kids are actually making?
Let's see: There's the time they all went to a parade and the candy they got was confiscated, the time they went to Disney and Kate had a meltdown because of some melted ice cream on a shirt, the time they went to the crayola factory and no one could use markers or glue, the time they were all sick and mommy and daddy went to get hair plugs anyway, the time Collin believed his teddy bear was headed for the trash (and I think it was very brave of him to tell Kate Teddy was his "buddy" in attempt to save him while she was bitching about wasting her precious organic peanut butter and threatening to throw it away), the time they went to decorate birthday cupcakes and mommy was miserable and reminding them constantly that they were wearing good clothes, the time everyone except the boys got to eat birthday cupcakes including Cara and Mady and it wasn't even their birthday! etc. ad nauseum. Good times.

It's Kate's own stupidity to let 6 four year olds wear what she considers good clothing to a place like that. And even stupider that they were all wearing aprons and still couldn't eat one lousy cupcake because it might get a speck of icing on it. My theory is that it isn't really even about getting a mess on the clothes, I think it's more about how she didn't want to be there and is a control freak.

And to the PP who said something about how they got ice cream once a summer for dinner and that doesn't mean it's every day? UM, as Kate would say...."HELLO?!" It wasn't any day, it's the day of thier birthday celebration. Are you honestly saying that you would deny your kid his own birthday cake for not eating enough dinner?

aly,benji n siennas mom said...

Minxie- The children have no faults to the parent’s favoritism NONE whatsoever.

A lot of people downgrade these children (mostly Hannah and Mady) and forget that they are INNOCENT KIDS! Putting Hannah’s name in quotations (“Hannie”) seems to me like your trying to say something about this 4 YEAR OLD CHILD! So what if they were feeding Hannah and not the boys, this does not give any human being the right to try to insinuate that that child wanted this. We need to focus on the problem and that is the PREANTS J&K!

We are here to bring light the issue that these children are being exploited and the parents are taking it too far. They need rights and are INNOCENT and oblivious to what is going on. THEY are 7 and 4 year old CHILDREN and cannot defend themselves! So please think before you want to talk about favoritism and underline the root of the problem that is WHO is doing the favoritism. It is not the children!!!!

Anonymous said...

I rewatched the 4th birthday episode again last night and noticed a few things I missed before. While the girls were sitting there eating their cupcakes and the boys were forced to sit there and watch, Jon can be heard in the background saying "Happy Birthday". The look on Aaden's face made me want to cry. If that is not just down right meanness from the parents, I don't know what is.
As to the poster above, the reason you did not see the boys plates is because they were cleared away and only Hannah got the chance to eat a little so she could get her cupcake. If you listen really closely you can tell Aaden was shocked that he could not get his cupcake. They were not forwarned that day about the dessert rule. Since this was a SPECIAL DAY most parents would have said at that meal "Eat your dinner so you can have your cupcakes for dessert". What they did is unthinkable and sick.

Also, Serena, I noticed how she was clapping the broom when she was yelling at Jon about not calling her life a "season". Sooooo funny!

Anonymous said...

Another example, of several, of J & K inconsistency when it comes to their so called 'rules' and their obvious favoritism of Hannah is the episode where two tups are playing with the snowflake window clings and are told to stop. When they BOTH continued, only the boy tup was placed on the time out mat while dearest Hannah got away with out punishment. I hope J & K believe the verbage they spew on the confessional couch when it comes to their enforcement of rules because it is very apparant as a viewer that their rules are anything but deserving and consistent. The entire episode featuring J & K's approach to discipline should have been appropriately titled, 'How To Discipline Your Children the Wrong Way 101'.

Guinevere said...

I had read about Cupcakegate here before seeing it, so I knew what to expect. J & K changed their cleaning-the-plate "rules" every other second. The kids were supposed to finish dinner, no ifs ands or buts.

That's simply not true. Kate clearly said that she didn't believe in "clean plate" rules, but that the kids have to make a good effort and eat most of their dinner.

And the nonsense of letting Hannah wear waist-length hair just because SHE doesn't want to get it cut--are you kidding me?

What in the world is wrong with the length of Hannah's hair?

Serena said...

Putting Hannah’s name in quotations (“Hannie”) seems to me like your trying to say something about this 4 YEAR OLD CHILD!

When I read minxie's post I didn't see it that way at all. I think people who point out the disparity in how the boys vs. the girls are treated, and how Hannah and to some extent Leah are treated vs. Alexis, they are being critical of Kate, not Hannah. Calling her "Hannie" is just another way of reflecting that favoritism so apparent to some of us.

Anonymous said...

When the show first came on, I couldn't watch very much of it because I didn't like the way Kate treated Jon (although her treatment of him then wasn't nearly as bad as it is now).

Eventually, I began watching it occasionally, because the children are so adorable, and lately I have been watching it often.

However, the cupcake episode was so bad on so many levels that I'm not sure I want to watch it again.

Perhaps they would have been better parents had they stopped with the twins (as Jon says he wanted to) or perhaps not but reality is that they are the parents of 8 precious children and they both need a lot of therapy (which I doubt they would ever admit they need) to figure out how to parent in a better manner.

Guinevere said...

And to the PP who said something about how they got ice cream once a summer for dinner and that doesn't mean it's every day? UM, as Kate would say...."HELLO?!" It wasn't any day, it's the day of thier birthday celebration. Are you honestly saying that you would deny your kid his own birthday cake for not eating enough dinner?

Um, actually, it wasn't the day of their birthday celebration. They had had a private family celebration. This was for the cameras. I'm fairly sure that the entire trip was producer-suggested. I think otherwise it was just a normal day for the Gosselins.

That said, you're never going to convince me that being denied a cupcake is some sort of violation of the Geneva convention. The boys cried because they're four and they cry over things and they were probably tired and cranky at that point. I doubt they were "forced" to sit and watch their sisters eat their cupcakes - they just happened to still be sitting there, didn't ask to be excused, or whatever. Not a bit deal.

FIONA said...

I do think they would have had a better chance if they had stopped with the twins. I think Kate might have been happier and more at ease. Jon would have for sure. But that isn't what happened. I think Kate was greedy in trying to have more kids...that's just my thoughts. IF she truly had a fertility problem, she should have felt so damn blessed to have had 2 babies.

minxie said...

Thanks Serena. I'm not disparaging Hannah--KATE is the one who uses "Hannie". She favors Hannah far more than any other child. Also, Hannah's hair--Hannah says she never wants her hair cut, so that's fine with Kate. Since when do four year olds get to make unchallenged decisions are things? I really doubt Kate would allow one of the boys to cause her more time and trouble in their grooming, just because they felt like it. Hannah's hair is pretty but it's so long that it looks like it gets in food, etc. (I speak as a mom here). To me, the whole issue is Kate's favoritism towards Hannah--she cuts Hannah slack that she would never do for, say, Joel, who seems to be her least favorite tup. And of course it's not Hannah's fault--in fact, at some point the other tups (and twins) are going to give Hannah grief for Kate's favoritism towards her-they won't take it out on Kate. Kate's doing Hannah no favors.

FIONA said...

I think otherwise it was just a normal day for the Gosselins.



Yep, you finally got it friend....it WAS a normal day for the G's......sad, huh?

laura linger said...

I put "Hannie" in quotation marks because I think it is an asinine nickname. No reflection on the child, a total reflection on her mother.

Anonymous said...

Who cares whether or not they cut Hannah's hair? Posters are not washinging her hair, bruishing her hair and can't imagine whats the to do about the hair. The hair appears bothersome to the kids but that is the Gooselins problem.

Guinevere said...

Yep, you finally got it friend....it WAS a normal day for the G's......sad, huh?

No, not sad at all. The kids seemed to have fun at the cupcake place.

I'm not disparaging Hannah--KATE is the one who uses "Hannie". She favors Hannah far more than any other child.

And she calls Joel "Joely" and Alexis "Lexy" or "Sassy" and Madelyn "Mady" - I don't see why you have such contempt that you have to put "Hannie" in quotes.

Also, Hannah's hair--Hannah says she never wants her hair cut, so that's fine with Kate. Since when do four year olds get to make unchallenged decisions are things?

Kate is constantly derided (with some justification) as a control freak, but when she lets one of the kids make a decision about the length of her hair, that's worthy of criticism, too? This is why people perceive the "haters" as not cutting Kate any slack, ever.

Different parents have different ideas about what are appropriate decisions for their children to make at what ages. I think Kate's decision to let Hannah keep her hair long is well within the "normal" range for a parent. It's not like Hannah decided to take up smoking and Kate said, "sure, go ahead!"

I really doubt Kate would allow one of the boys to cause her more time and trouble in their grooming, just because they felt like it.

Well, we don't know that one way or another. It seems people find enough to blame Kate for without blaming her for things you imagine she might do or not do.

Hannah's hair is pretty but it's so long that it looks like it gets in food, etc. (I speak as a mom here).

Can we please, please, please not rehash the "dangers of hair near food" discussion from TWOP? I think that was the nadir for that thread.

To me, the whole issue is Kate's favoritism towards Hannah--she cuts Hannah slack that she would never do for, say, Joel, who seems to be her least favorite tup.

I think this is all a matter of perception - for instance, in this past episode, Kate sweetly gives Joel a kiss when she's putting him in the van after church, an action for which she has been...criticized in this thread. Because Kate Gosselin can't even kiss her kids correctly, apparently.

Nina said...

[Anonymous said...
When the show first came on, I couldn't watch very much of it because I didn't like the way Kate treated Jon (although her treatment of him then wasn't nearly as bad as it is now).

Eventually, I began watching it occasionally, because the children are so adorable, and lately I have been watching it often.

However, the cupcake episode was so bad on so many levels that I'm not sure I want to watch it again.]

It's like a train wreck...you don't really want to look but can't help staring in utter disbelief when you see it.

~NC~

Anonymous said...

I don't see anything wrong with Kate being called a bitch, because that's exactly how she presents herself - as a bitch. And an entitled, miserable one at that.

The favoritism shown to a select few of the children is disgusting. In regards to "Cupcakegate", I don't believe for a second that the boys ate less dinner than Hannah, who seemed to only take two, force-fed bites of hers. It's no wonder that Joel, in a previous episode, declared himself to be a girl. That kid knows what's up, and that's pretty shameful.

Anonymous said...

"What memories do you think these kids are actually making?
Let's see: There's the time they all went to a parade and the candy they got was confiscated, the time they went to Disney and Kate had a meltdown because of some melted ice cream on a shirt, the time they went to the crayola factory and no one could use markers or glue, the time they were all sick and mommy and daddy went to get hair plugs anyway, the time Collin believed his teddy bear was headed for the trash (and I think it was very brave of him to tell Kate Teddy was his "buddy" in attempt to save him while she was bitching about wasting her precious organic peanut butter and threatening to throw it away), the time they went to decorate birthday cupcakes and mommy was miserable and reminding them constantly that they were wearing good clothes, the time everyone except the boys got to eat birthday cupcakes including Cara and Mady and it wasn't even their birthday! etc. ad nauseum. Good times."

This could be said for the way I grew up. In fact, so much of the way Kate reacts reminds me of the way my mom reacts and yes my therapist did let me know that I had a narcissist for a mother. The thing with narcissists is that they are also very charming people. Yes, good and happy times can be experienced with narcissists.

I think that Kate and Jon truly love their children and are trying to do their best by them. This does count enormously. But the rage benders and being completely out of control can be scary. When living with a person who has meltdowns and rages it puts you in a constant state of vigilance. Also, the acting out and shutting down of activities when Jon is playing with the kids (I noticed this most during the Christmas shopping episode) due to (IMO) Kate's insecurity over her inability to relate to them that way is very disconcerting for a child who is most likely going to internalize why that behavior is happening. The thing is, if Kate has trouble coping (and I realize that coping with 8 children and a reality show takes a lot of coping) then she will not be able to teach her children how to cope. We are seeing problems with Mady and her inability to cope when she is upset. Also with Alexis and the throwing up. Not normal behavior.

Kate also seems to me more stressed out this season. Even on my best day I can't imagine taking 8 children 75 miles to decorate cupcakes. What are the producers thinking? What are Jon and Kate thinking? Do they live in such an isolated area that that is the closest they are to a cup cake decorating shop? I actually do understand that viewers will be expecting to see the tups 4th birthday party, and that something needed to be done, but whoever is dreaming up all those "fun" kid activities that involve hauling 8 kids all over the state of Penn. needs to get a reality check.

When I first starting watching J&K+8 I admired the way that Kate was "honest" about her shortcomings, and that she was working on it. None of us are perfect and I related to the struggle and empathized with the fact that she was doing it publicly. I admired her courage. During the last few episodes I have been very disillusioned. I think that I have become very anti-Kate because I feel that somehow she broke faith with me. I was happy to stand by her as long as she was willing to make an effort, but she does not even seem to know what it is that needs fixing or how to change.

Anonymous said...

1) Kate doesn't edit the show. Just because you don't see her with the boys doesn't mean she's not with them and hugging them and kissing them. Don't assume because you don't see it, it's not happening. And I'm not saying it is happening. I don't know that it is. Anymore than you all can't know that it's not!

Holy Mother of Multiples! Do you really believe that with all of the internet chatter about her alternately ignoring and the threatening the boys that if there was ample footage of her being loving and affectionate to them they wouldn't show it???? If they purposefully left out loving and caring footage I have a feeling that Kate and Jon would call foul at the editing and then threaten the production co. to show a more accurate depiction of them or they would walk. With all due respect, everyone knows there is no such footage. Even being chided by production to be more affectionate to the boys, she can't bring herself to do it. You want my opinion as to why?...she does not like them and you see it on her face when she speaks about them and in her contrived attempts to be affectionate. Case in point, that head snap/kiss of death she did to one of the boys in the last episodes. Every bit of that scene seemed wrong and scary - look at her expression it is scary and the boy is scared.

I have a ? - is that a perfectly good play structure that I saw in their backyard???? Why in the world would they be confined to a 10x10 piece of driveway if they have a huge backyard and playstructure. Didn't she also all but beg for a play structure to be gifted to them when they were at the Cocoa Castle?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon,
I believe as well that the show has a negative effect on Jon and Kate as well as on the kids. Lights, camera, action--this couldn't be a stress-free home for this family, including the parents. Jon and Kate need to rethink how they provide for their family and what they really need to do. I hope they don't become so caught up with the perks that they fail to retain control over the public story of their themselves and their childen.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 3:34 said: "But the rage benders and being completely out of control can be scary. When living with a person who has meltdowns and rages it puts you in a constant state of vigilance."

I agree, living with a parent with that kind of rage is exceptionally scary. Except I don't see rage in Kate. I see a tired and stressed parent. My mother used to rage, speed up as fast as she could in the car while screaming hysterically that she was going to run it into a tree. She used to hold a gun to her head and threaten to kill herself because I was "so terrible." Having lived with it, I'm *still* not an expert at spotting it. I know people here are saying once you've lived with it you can definitely spot it. If that's the case maybe I am an expert, and I do not see rage in Kate.

miemic said...

Last night I was quasi-watching some re-runs. At 10 p.m., I was flipping back and forth between Super Nanny and something else. They had a woman on Super Nanny that *hated* messes and dirt. I didn't see the whole thing, but it showed how she hated playdough, because it got on their clothes, etc. And there was Jo "it's just playdough. It comes out. I promise." They later showed Jo forcing the lady to touch dirt, to get dirty. She also told her "Dirty fingernails are not a big deal, you put them in the tub, and scrub them" or something to that effect. I just thought the timing of the whole thing was ironic, and it sealed the deal for me that Kate really does need help with these issues. I'm not diagnosing her, or begrudging her, but it just seems like she could use some help, to say the least.

Also, I have been thinking about the OCD cleanliness thing for a while, even before I started coming here and to other sites. I think having however many people in your home, day in and day out, would compound any OCD tendencies you might have. For example, if you have company coming, you clean up. If you have company coming, with recording equipment, and bright glaring lights, you'd *really* clean up. KWIM? I think that all these people in her house with such bright lights, exacerbates the situation. Again, not defending her, just my observations. I think she is completely hyper-aware of the dirt in her home, because she knows it will be seen by millions of people. And it goes 'round and 'round....

And finally, my husband and I have fertility problems as well. It's what initially drew me to watch J&K+8. I live in Central PA, and delivered my twins at Hershey. We did IVF however, not IUI.

I also had HOS (hyper-ovulation syndrome) as Kate did. It sucks, and is painful. I don't think that she "trapped" Jon into having sex with her while she had HOS. I had it after I did my IVF treatment, and was pregnant at the time of my hospitalization. So, it's entirely possible she was already pregnant when she had HOS. Also, I was in the hospital the entire time, until the symptoms calmed down. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me.

Lastly, my twins were preemies. One was in the NICU. She had some developmental delays, speech problems, etc. I think this is fairly normal for preemies. I don't know if J&K have had their tups evaluated, but if I could recommend it, I would. My daughter got back on track in time for Kindergarten, and has fully caught up to her peers. My twins will be in 3rd grade next year.

Anyway, if you read this far, thanks!

berkscounty said...

Anonymous 3:34 you hit the nail on the head with your post.

Anonymous said...

"With all due respect, everyone knows there is no such footage."

It would be really helpful I think if people who post here did not frame things in terms of "everyone feels/knows/thinks". Your opinion is your opinion; others may or may not share it but it's extremely doubtful that "everyone" agrees about anything.

"Even being chided by production to be more affectionate to the boys, she can't bring herself to do it."

I would also ask that people refrain from stating speculation as fact. That's how rumors get started and it becomes like a game of Telephone - before you know it, "everyone" will know that Kate was asked by producers to be more affectionate to her sons, even when there is no evidence to suggest this.

Serena said...

Except I don't see rage in Kate. I see a tired and stressed parent.

Oh I absolutely see rage in Kate.

She may not be the pot-boiling-over with steam coming out of her ears variety, but she's stewing.

It looks to me like she sublimates it in a variety of ways, so we see a chronic dour expression on her face, indolent lounging with a look of resentment during what is supposed to be a family-oriented activity, harsh criticisms and demeaning put-downs of Jon, cold and unnatural reactions to her children (the boys in particular), etc.

I think one of the main sources of her exhaustion is keeping that rage bottled up and under control in hopes that it will go undetected by the constant scrutiny of the cameras.

Anonymous said...

Quote: It would be really helpful I think if people who post here did not frame things in terms of "everyone feels/knows/thinks". Your opinion is your opinion; others may or may not share it but it's extremely doubtful that "everyone" agrees about anything.

-----------------------------

Quote: I would also ask that people refrain from stating speculation as fact. That's how rumors get started and it becomes like a game of Telephone - before you know it, "everyone" will know that Kate was asked by producers to be more affectionate to her sons, even when there is no evidence to suggest this.

-----------------------------

Mars? Is that you?

JG said...

With regards to the gum episode, Jodi, having four children of her own, had to know the ins and outs of gum and children. She took a risk letting them chew it in her HOUSE. For all we know it was all over her couch and carpets and wood floors. I think it was an "Auntie treat" she let them indulge in at her house under her care. The children had assured her and even brought it to her asking for it. She flew with them from Utah, she probably saw them with gum then.
I tell you what, I wouldn't let my nieces and nephews chew gum at my house. I think it was mighty nice of Jodi. Too bad Kate didn't call and say, " Thanks for watching the kids all day. We have a little gum on two pieces of clothing and a bear, was there any at your house?" Then work it into," please, let's not do gum anymore, both for your house's sake and the laundry".
My opinion though.
I know that I might have lost my temper, been tired or whatnot in her shoes. What I don't get is how Kate doesn't seem to edit herself knowing the cameras are there. I might have been mad, but I would have reined it in a bit because it will be splashed on the TV.

Serena said...

What I don't get is how Kate doesn't seem to edit herself knowing the cameras are there.

Narcissists don't believe there is a thing wrong with their behavior -- any and all problems in relationships are the fault of others.

Remember that time Kate went ballistic when a little vanilla ice cream melted onto the dress of one of the girls at Disney World? And Jen [the show's producer] asked Kate if that was an overreaction?

Without batting an eye or skipping a beat, Kate's response was a simple, "No". She sees no need to monitor her behavior, she shows no self-awareness or any inkling that her behavior may be neurotic.

moi said...

Kate doesn't edit the show. Just because you don't see her with the boys doesn't mean she's not with them and hugging them and kissing them. Don't assume because you don't see it, it's not happening. And I'm not saying it is happening. I don't know that it is. Anymore than you all can't know that it's not!

Well by your logic, I don't see Kate beating the kids onscreen either, however I'm not assuming it goes on behind the scenes. You can't have it both ways, you know. No matter how it is "edited," the things we DO see are things that DID happen. Last time I checked, I'm in America and am within my rights to comment on such things.

ITA with all the comments regarding narcissists; I was raised by one. If you aren't close to one, you can't understand or necessarily recognize it. And before anyone gets defensive about that, let me assure you that you should consider yourself lucky.

minxie said...

serena said...

Oh I absolutely see rage in Kate.

She may not be the pot-boiling-over with steam coming out of her ears variety, but she's stewing.
--------

When I looked again at the first two Gosselin specials I was struck by how little anger there was in Kate, particularly compared to the way she is now. She had a stretched out tummy, a small house, a 16-hour nursing shift every other weekend, babies who could do very little for themselves, and a husband who was gone a lot for his own job. She didn't look coiffed and I never heard about day spas, but she looked really happy and grateful for her kids. No wonder the show was appealing. Now she has more money, perks, trips, and a husband who is home full time and she looks like she is seething most of the time.

Anonymous said...

Kids under five should never have gum or popcorn, for that matter. It is to easy to choke on. Surely, Jodi knew thaat gum was a no no. As she thought to admoish them to "give her the gum, when they were done chewing" How come, she did not get the gum and check them for any residue? I don't approve of Kate's actions with Collin at all and she was very cruel but Jodi did have a part in the deal.

Anonymous said...

If these posts were just about Jon and Kate, and how they lived their lives, and how they treated each other, and how Kate smacks and belittles Jon, and how Jon yells back and how Kate won't let Jon talk about time as "seasons" for the show, and how Kate sits on her lazy ass all day, and how Jon doesn't work...I'd say RIGHT, we have no right to criticize the way that they live. But there are 8INNOCENT LIVES that are being influenced now with possible long term effects. We are starting to see it already. They have CHOSEN to put themselves on national TV, and as such, it is the responsibility of those watching, to at least bring this to the attention of people who could make a difference for those children. Do we have the right to take the law into our hands and go gangbusting through their doors in the middle of the night and take the children? HELL NO. But we do have the right and the obligation to try to help through those who can make a difference.

Anonymous said...

I agree, we don't know what goes on when the cameras aren't rolling, but I don't think it is unreasonable to assume things are worse when the cameras are not there. People always put on their best face for company, for meeting new people, for saying/doing things that may be contrived as controversial. Yeah, I know Kate says she doesn't care what others think and she doesn't think about others watching, but you can bet the farm she sees danger on the horizon with all of the negative press about this show, and if this show gets yanked, she can pucker up and kiss the new house, perks, lover offerings and an unemployed life goodbye. Even the most narcissist person will act differently if they believe their behavior will negatively affect him/her.

FIONA said...

Kids under five should never have gum or popcorn, for that matter. It is to easy to choke on. Surely, Jodi knew thaat gum was a no no. As she thought to admoish them to "give her the gum, when they were done chewing" How come, she did not get the gum and check them for any residue? I don't approve of Kate's actions with Collin at all and she was very cruel but Jodi did have a part in the deal.

I do believe that is was cofirmed that both Jon and Jodi did check the kids for "residue"....why??? Because they both know what would happen if any kid came home with a speck onn them. That alone would be extremely stressful for any `care giver of the kids for fear of Mother's wrath if they got dirty. I am sure Jodi loved it when they played dress up because their free clothing was covered up. I don't think that is the point of this issue. I myself probably wouldn't have given gum...but she did. The point is the effect it had on Kate. Her reaction was irrational and terrified her son. (Did anyone notice that one of the little girls skidattled up the stairs when Mother started in?) If you are in anyway insinuating that by Jodi giving the kids gum we should in someway excuse Mother's behavior, I would say, "I think not".

JMO

Anonymous said...

Have been a member for a while, but can't remember my password, and reading everything. I too tried and tried to give the benefit of the doubt to Jon and Kate. I even gave them a pass on Joelgate. Then along comes Cupcake and just about knocks me on my ass. I DON'T CARE IF IT WAS THEIR CALENDAR BIRTHDAY OR NOT. DOESN'T MATTER. It was an event set up for celebrate their birthday. It was a birthday activity. And Kate succeeded in ruining it for everyone. She should have stayed home on her plastic throne in the garage and barked orders into the air.

sugarjay said...

Gueinivere,
I think it's sick that the producers set the kids up the way that they do in the first place. They know that messy situation = Kate acting like a psycho which gives them all the trainwreck footage that we see constantly. IT IS TOTALLY UNFAIR TO THE KIDS. Can you imagine how stressed out those kids must be when Kate is breathing down their neck every second and warning them not to get a drop of anything messy on their clothes?

And about the boys staying at the table while everyone else had cake? Have you forgotten that they sit in high chairs still? They aren't capable of getting up from the table themselves. We've seen footage on other episodes where Jon had to help them out of the high chairs to go to the bathroom.

Does it really matter if the outing wasn't on their actual birthday? We're talking about four year olds here. It was an outing to celebrate their birthday. That's the point of all the CAKE. As in birthday cake. Whether it was contrived for the show or not, it was birthday cake in the mind of a four year old. Too bad in reality it was just another day of work for kids.

Anonymous said...

Fiona - Having copied my post where I wrote that Kate was cruel, etc - where does the "insinuating" that Kate's behavior should be excused come into the dialogue?

Serena said...

Too bad in reality it was just another day of work for kids.

Yeah really. Well, nothing like getting to go home at the end of a work day to the peaceful, PRIVATE haven of your home... your oasis...

Oh wait, the Gosselin children can't do that. They LIVE at their work place. They have to wait for the production crew to decide that they've caught enough of them in action that day, for the production crew to turn off the studio lights, pack up their gear, and go home before their work day ends.

And remember that Kate herself told America that the crew is there week in and week out, 3-4 days per week, often arriving before the children are even up out of bed in the morning and not leaving until the children have been put to bed in the evening.

This is an outrageous violation of what child labor laws forbid for children in the "non-reality" part of the industry. It is time for the laws to catch up with the trend... reality TV is here to stay and there are thousands of parents ready, willing, and able to step in and exploit their children when the next opening comes up.

FIONA said...

This is TO KATE-Please Read It

You must have something amazing going for you to have brought into this world such beautifully spirited children. Science might have made them, but you Kate got them here! They are healthy, funny, interesting, beautiful children. (Mady and Cara also) You are responsible for shaping these wonderful unique people. What an awesome experience you have in your hands. The power to affect the lives of 8 people, forever. That is so cool Kate. But I don't think you have realized the opportunity you have in front of you. I don't think you appreciate these gifts. Take a minute or 20, and think about the things you do tomorrow and how they affect the lives of your children. Are they the BEST choices for your children? I believe that you do know, deep inside that you and Jon need to make some quick decsions about the children and the way they are being raised. You reference your unhappy childhood from time to time and it makes you sad and resentful. You don't really want that for Mady and Cara, do you? You know that Hannah and Leah, Joel, Collin, Alexis ans Aaden deserve a normal happy life. Those were your intentions when wanting to be a Mom, weren't they??? Of course they were. Kate, please, please...look to someone to help you get out of this cycle you are in. Reach out to someone...soon.

Sincerely,

Fiona

Anonymous said...

There will soon come a time when the children realize that nobody else has studio lights and a film crew in their home. They will see that other kids and their families do things that are spontaneous and fun and don't require retakes. They will go to other children's homes and see fathers that go to work and mothers that juggle lots of responsibilities without flying into rages. Kate and Jon are going to be found out by their children, and the children are going to ask questions and do some serious talking among themselves. As others here have pointed out, there are some major memories being made here for certain.

Anonymous said...

Anon: 5:00

So Funny! Laughed out loud!

FIONA said...

I think one of the best things going for the kids is not their parents...by a long shot, but rather that they have each other. I think that will pull them thru. They are really neat kids it seems and I hope they do remain close. I have a strong hunch their family memories in the future will involve just the sibs...no Mom and Dad.

dizzy_squishling_and_bean said...

Okay I've just read a gazillion blog entries and comments and have soem questions and things to ask...

1) What kind of crappy frakin washing machine does Kate have that won't take out frosting....I mean really I live in an appartment with a craptastic washing machine, a 2 1/2 year old a 17 month old and a 7 month old...I spend MAYBE a half hour a month scrubbing stains most of them automatically come out in the wash due to the wonder of...laundry detergent.

2) No J&K aren't PHYSICALLY abusive there are way more kinds of abuse than those. Those kids are victims of mental and emotional abuse you can see it in their eyes. If clips of them calling their kids stupid etc are making it to the air you KNOW the worse stuff is ending up on the cutting room floor.

3) Are they going to be allowed to see Aunt Jodi at all? Ever?

4) Someone needs to change the Gosslins home page. If they do not have college funds set up for them. Then they are irresponsible parents...ebay a few of the gifts they receive monthly and set up an account. Seriously. They are pretty lame if they havent set up an account by this time. OR Jon could take his lazy butt back to work and put his earnings toward their college education.

Anonymous said...

minxie said...
J & K changed their cleaning-the-plate "rules" every other second. The kids were supposed to finish dinner, no ifs ands or buts.


I think Kate said NUMEROUS times that they DON'T have to finish their food. They just have to take a good stab out of it. She's mentioned over and over on a bunch of episodes that they DON'T believe in forcing the children to clean their plates. She even said it in this episode! Do you watch the same show I do?

sugarjay said...
."HELLO?!" It wasn't any day, it's the day of thier birthday celebration.


HELLO?! It WASN'T their birthday! Their birthday had passed days before and was celebrated with the family. People on this board and others have gone on and on about how the cupcake day was staged by the producers to celebrate the tups' birthdays. Staged or not, it wasn't their birthday. I'm sure they got to eat their birthday cake on their actual birthday. I think refusing the cupcake was totally consistent and totally fair and TOTALLY what my own mother would have done. And I wouldn't have called CPS on her for it.

I'm not saying that making the boys watch while the girls ate them was okay. Honestly, I don't think they're perfect parents and they admit they're not.

They don't do everything right. But they don't do everything wrong either.

Leslie said...

Anonymous said... I have a ? - is that a perfectly good play structure that I saw in their backyard???? Why in the world would they be confined to a 10x10 piece of driveway if they have a huge backyard and playstructure.

Good question I've wondered myself until I saw an episode one day where it became clear. Kate was walking by the side of the garage to the side of the house which leads to the backyard and there was a sign on the garage wall that I paused my DVR to read and it said that the backyard area is reserved for the Gosselin children. They did show them playing back there in early episodes but my guess is that's now their 'private' play area and that they play in the driveway for a little while everyday (before nap time maybe?) so that the producers can get some footage.

Anonymous said...

It wasn't their birthday, so not getting to eat cupcakes doesn't matter? Holy Hell, really?

These kids spent the day for you and your filming requirements wearing duckie yellow matching outfits, although they are four now and real people, individuals, not toddlers and not a gaggle to be paraded around in such materialistic nonsense.

They went to church with you, then travelled 75 miles (really, 75 miles? there was nothing more convenient on behalf of the children available?) for you, wore your required aprons while listening to harping parents, were cute as could be while decorating the cupcakes that the bakery gave to them as their own PERSONAL PROPERTY, their own creation, waiting patiently to get home to eat them as they were told, but couldn't eat them once home because of some dinner rule glitch, as it wasn't their real birthday and therefore all was discarded in the trash, never to be spoken about again?

Really? These kids did what you needed them to do that day to make 60,000.00 for the episode, income for your family, right? Let them eat their freakin' cake! A small reward and thank you for their day of working the cameras and for the added income value they bring to your family! This is not rocket science.


Shall we talk about respect, personal boundaries and taking better care of the "talent", as there would be no 60,000.00 for the day without them?

sugarjay said...

Anon at 3:23, ITA, you said exactly what I was thinking

Anon at 11:50, My point is that the children, who spent all day doing things required for the show on top of attending their church which has been said is an hour away knew that it was a birthday activity. The episode was called 'Septuplets turn 4' for crying out loud. Just because it was contrived for the show does not mean the tups understood that. You're splitting hairs over technicalities that are over a 4 year olds' head to understand. THE TUPS THOUGHT THE CUPCAKES WERE BIRTHDAY CUPCAKES. But even if they didn't I think it's downright mean to take those kids, drive them an hour to church, then all the way to whatever bakery would let them film there and give freebies, let them spend all afternoon making cupcakes, not let any of the little kids eat the cupcakes there, drive them all the way back home, sit them down for dinner and then after clearing the plates away inform three of them that they don't even get a small reward for jumping through hoops all day.

I'm sure some memories were made over that one.

laurie said...

I'm new to this blog. I have to say that I am one of those people who fell into the "kate trap". I had my own personal experience with Kate, via MY sending HER a bracelet and earrings for Mother's Day. I made sure that it made it in time for her to have something "more than special" to open. I honestly thought that she "missed out" and was "struggling to make ends meet" and all the other things she comments on now and then. I have made blog posts about how my children (I have four) love LOVE the show (now I do not permit them to watch it, they don't need anymore shock value).

I make glass beads and design jewelry. And I think I'm pretty good at it. So, I wanted to send a little gift from me to Kate. Kinda like that gal who was in Toys R Us almost buying gifts for the kids? Yeah. I did something like that. LOL My experience with Kate was "fine" but the things she had to say about Mady and Cara slightly bothered me. In an email she says that they "need to learn to love" so I needed to put a Love charm on the bracelets I was designing for them. Wow. It blew me away, her candid statement. Ugh. I'd never say that about my kids, "that they need to learn to love". Ugh. To 'act as a reminder' when they see the charm. UGH!!

I won't go into all the details of what happened, but I will say this, after the cupcake episode I realized that I had made a horrible judgement in WHO I thought Kate was and what kind of mother she IS. I was trying to relate to her, that altho I only have four kids, I CAN relate to chaos and juggling schedules and making it all "work". But the thing is, we have absolutely NOTHING in common. I hate to say it because I truly thought so well of her, that I loved talking "gosselin" episodes with my girlfriends while our kids romped in the local pool. Fun talk, ya know? LOL

But this episode sent me over the edge and I was nealy in tears at one point. How often as we as parents "caved" on a grounding of a child, given an empty threat for one reason or another, simply changed our minds to let them do something with a friend when we said originally they couldn't? I know I've done this LOTS of times and well, I have to say there's nothing wrong with it. Why was it necessary for Kate to keep the little ones away from the beautiful thing they had made at the bakery? Why couldn't they eat it there? Were their clothes THAT special? They did, after all, have aprons on, so what would have been the big deal? yeah. nothing.

I think what bothered me the most was her sitting by herself with her arms crossed, not wanting to be involved in the day. It bothered me. And the "we don't eat stuff our kids make" upset me too. i have eaten lots of things my kids have made and i'm okay. I can't say that all of it was good, but heck, they sure were PROUD when Momma ate some of THEIR food. and I, I was PROUD to be their Momma. :)

I wake up each day thrilled to be a parent, a parent who, like Kate and Jon, had to do major amounts of fertility to get my crew of four. I am thankful to kiss them and tell them that my world REVOLVES around them and that I will do my best to keep them safe, but more importantly, I want them to be happy and content with who they are.

Altho my experience with Kate wasn't the best (she did however, love and was "thrilled" with her bracelet and earrings), I wish it had been better. I wish that she had lived up to who I thought she was, a caring gal who was normal and trying to "make it all work".

I think I would have rather gone on blinded. ::sigh:: Is that wrong? Is it wrong for me to long for what I "thought" they were? To wish that they were as "every day normal" and all that? I feel like the Matrix, Neo. LOL I wish I hadn't seen through the smoke and mirrors.

I'm sure I'll be blasted for this post and if it doesn't make it "up" i'm okay with that, I just had no one to vent to about my personal situation with them. I really wish it had turned out differently and that my experience with them was one I could be proud of and enjoy. To the contrary, it left a horrible taste in my mouth.

LG

mswestern said...

Laurie,

I don't know why anyone would "blast" you for your heartfelt post. You tried to do something kind for another mother, and found out that someone you admired had feet of clay ... there's no fault there in you. I think the Kate of Seasons 1 and 2 (and they WERE "seasons", Kate, not "years") was more relateable. She has been revealing more and more of herself over time.

Poor Cara and Mady ... not only does their mother think they "need to learn to love", but she has no trouble saying so to someone she's only met over the Internet. Sort of like Kate slipping a note into Mady's lunch box reminding her to "be a friend". There's nothing wrong with that, per se, but why turn to the camera and read her note out loud to the television audience? The way she emphasizes her children's perceived failings is unsettling.

laurie said...

Awww, yes, wasn't that sad, the note in the lunch box? I write notes to my kids and when they saw that episode they could NOT relate to it. Ugh. My eldest daughter was mortified by what she wrong "to be a friend" etc etc... or something about friendships. Ugh.

In my notes, as I'm sure MOST Mom's write, say things like, "you're gonna be awesome!" or "i'll miss you all day!" things to UPLIFT your child, because that's how they grow spiritually and emotionally. if we cultivate a beautiful garden in their hearts, they'll grow and show others who they are whenever they're not with us.

It's like a parenting show for "what not to do". I've learned so much.

::sigh::

The Truth Will Set You Free said...

Laurie,

I'd like to thank you for sharing your story. This story, as well as the one shared by Nancy, brought me to tears. It's so hard for me to hear stories like this and I completely understand your feelings of wishing it weren't this way. I am truely heartbroken over what I'm continuing to read and learn. I pray every night that it weren't this way. That something will happen to change what is going on.

It's not too late. J&K have a family who wants to be there and help them. Even after everything that has happened over all of the years, they have a family who still cares. I wish they could see that, and would follow the advice of people who love them and aren't out to make money off of them.

I know for a fact that their family would rally around them and do ANYTHING. Who cares what the public would think. The public is very forgiving. There is no shame in admitting that things are getting out of control, and seeking help. Please reach out to those who love you.

The Truth Will Set You Free said...

"Those kids look pretty damn happy to me. In spite of all of the 'emotional abuse' everyone keeps talking about, those kids are always smiling and are probably the most lovable and loving siblings I have ever seen. You can't force kids to go up to each other to see how they're doing and make them feel better (like you've seen in episodes when kids are the corner). Those kids are so loving and so obviously all well cared and loved, that I think it's ignorant and unfair to assume they're leading miserable lives."

Although I haven't watched many episodes, I don't think it's fair to say "those kids are always smiling". And no, you can't force kids to go up to each other, etc. BUT you can suggest it. I'm not saying that they haven't captured some spontaneous moments (of course the kids are lovable), but I know that the producer tells them to do certain things for the camera.

Anonymous said...

Laurie,

That was a wonderful post! Thank you for sharing it. I totally understand your wanting to still have the good thoughts you always had about Kate. Many former fans of hers wish that also.

I didn't watch many of the early shows because Kate has always driven me crazy but she did seem happier and somewhat more relaxed in them. Now I hate to think what happens in that household when the crew isn't there.

My guess is that the producer couldn't care less how she acts, and probably sets it up so she will go crazy, because Scary Kate means higher ratings than Nice Kate.

What you did for her was very sweet and thoughtful.

Anonymous said...

If I had these two fruitcakes for parents and a bunch of strangers in and out of my house, I'd turn to my siblings for support too. Of course, the kids do scream, hit, and make strange remarks about each other (jabbing pencils) too, so I wouldn't say that all is well at chez Gosselin.

moi said...

Laurie, why would we blast you? Your gesture was kind and sweet, and you are right to be upset. You are totally accurate when you say, "It's like a parenting show for 'what not to do.' It is as if we have to think, WWKD? and then do the opposite. Then we know we are doing just fine!

Anonymous July 10, 11:50 said: HELLO?! It WASN'T their birthday! Their birthday had passed days before and was celebrated with the family. People on this board and others have gone on and on about how the cupcake day was staged by the producers to celebrate the tups' birthdays. Staged or not, it wasn't their birthday. I'm sure they got to eat their birthday cake on their actual birthday. I think refusing the cupcake was totally consistent and totally fair

I would disagree that it was fair. "Kids, sit in the van for 150 miles round-trip today with cameras in your face for this contrived activity, after which you will not get to enjoy what you have made in spite of the fact this entire things was staged as your 'birthday celebration.'"

But maybe we just have different defintions of "fair."

Serena said...

In an email she says that they "need to learn to love" so I needed to put a Love charm on the bracelets I was designing for them.

Well, all children DO need to learn love, and most mothers realize that children learn what they live.

As a result, most mothers demonstrate their love for their children on a daily basis and I mean the kind of love that imprints itself on the heart. Not the custodial things like feeding them organic food and dressing them in matching, stain-free outfits... but the tender, nurturing, compassionate things that Kate seems to be utterly incapable of.

Personally, I think spending time with Aunt Jodi would more than compensate for what they lack from Kate, but since that's not an option any more, I guess Kate had to resort to telling a complete stranger to teach the Gosselin children about love by adding a certain kind of dangle to a bracelet.

How tragic to be so completely clueless of about the true nature of love.

Anonymous said...

I wish Alexis would be allowed in more of the girls activities and not left at home all the time with the boys. At the 4th birthday she should have be allowed to sit with Leah & Hanah but she was put with the boys. This seems to encourage Leah & Hannah's closeness. So there is Mady and Cara and then Leah and Hannah has each other who is little Alexis to have for a close friend. In case you haven't noticed I an fond of her.

Also, on the gumgate issue, when to take your children to another person's house for them to babysit and that person has 4 children of her own and is babysitting for free then you go by her house rules, the rules she has for her children. If you want to make the rules then hire a babysitter and keep them at home. I believe the saying is when in Rome do as the Romans do.

Also, unless I missed something they went straight from Church to the bakery on the 4th B-day episode so did the kids not have lunch. If they only had their bag of dried cereal for breakfast on the way to Church I am sure they were getting hungry. Would it have hurt for them to eat a cupcake at the bakery?

These are just my thoughts. I have never posted before and may not ever again but I enjoy reading all of yours.

Anonymous said...

"HELLO?! It WASN'T their birthday!"

So? The actual day the event took place is irrelevant. The fact that some of the kids were denied getting to eat the goodies that they created was insane.

And as far as Kate being OCD goes, that's just bullcrap, imo. Anyone who is truly obsessed about cleanliness/germs would never cut a kid's dirty fingernails at the dinner table while others were eating. Kate just pitches an inane bitch about any and every supposed mess because it might mean her harpy ass will have to actually do a little extra work. As well, both she and Jon have shown themselves to be vain, so of course the importance of the kids' pristine clothes is going to trump any fun and happy memories that all the kids should be allowed to have. The priorities of these two parents seem to be twisted all the hell up.

AG said...

Laurie,

Thank you for sharing your story. What you did for Kate, Cara and Mady was very kind. I'm sorry Kate showed you her true colors. I, too, can't imagine any mother saying that about their children, much less telling the gift-giver how a generous gift should be made. But like you said, we all can learn what "not" to be by watching Kate. Thanks again.

laurie said...

Ohhh yes, I didn't mean to suggest that I thought children don't need to learn to love. Ohhh they do, they do. But it must be shown to them in a natural way, you know?

When I sent her the bracelets I had truly thought that she would be different with the whole thing, but alas, as i have never done thi sort of thing...send something of serious value to a complete and utter stranger, well i didn't know what to expect.

if you'd like to see what i created for them, you can see it here: http://www.bylgd.com/keytomyheart.htm

i've only shown these photos to a couple people and they are not on an open page on my site, unable to find unless you have this link. i think they turned out really beautifully. :)

laurie

Anonymous said...

I agree that sweet Alexis seems to have semi boy status in the family. But she is so polite and sweet. I noticed she said thank you so sweetly twice in the episode. And she was genuinely delighted by Joel's
OH MY". What a darling she is.

Serena said...

Laurie -- I've added a link to your website on our sidebar -- your jewelry is gorgeous! We get several thousand hits per day here, you might see an increase in your traffic soon. :)

Serena said...

Ohhh yes, I didn't mean to suggest that I thought children don't need to learn to love. Ohhh they do, they do. But it must be shown to them in a natural way, you know?

Oh of course -- I went on to elaborate that exact point in the rest of my comment.

laurie said...

Serena!! You dear! I'm on brides.com too. :) altho i don't know if i have a link on my site TO the page on brides but i'm VERY proud to be there!! you can see it here...

http://www.brides.com/local/southern_california/fashion_beauty/wedding_accessories/results


if you scroll down, you'll see me. :) thank you for the compliments on my things, that's so kind.

Pam said...

I am new to watching the show this year but have caught up with past episodes. When I first started watching I tried to to contact J&K regarding my small business that I run. I wanted to gift Jon with a few items. Mainly because I thought my product was such a match for him however I wouldn't be honest if I didn't say that I had hoped he would wear it and bring a little business my way. I did let them know that my company was a very small business and beyond gifting Jon, I would not be able to sponsor or contribute in any other way. I never heard back from them. I know they received the two e-mails because they were not returned. I was disappointed at the time but now I feel very differently about it.

Anonymous said...

leslie said...
Anonymous said... I have a ? - is that a perfectly good play structure that I saw in their backyard???? Why in the world would they be confined to a 10x10 piece of driveway if they have a huge backyard and playstructure.

Good question I've wondered myself until I saw an episode one day where it became clear. Kate was walking by the side of the garage to the side of the house which leads to the backyard and there was a sign on the garage wall that I paused my DVR to read and it said that the backyard area is reserved for the Gosselin children. They did show them playing back there in early episodes but my guess is that's now their 'private' play area and that they play in the driveway for a little while everyday (before nap time maybe?) so that the producers can get some footage.

What the hell!??!!! Shouldn't that "stay out" sign be on the door to the bathroom, shower, children's room and where the port-a-potties are?????? You know in my Mommy group many have discussed people at public parks trying to take pictures of the kids playing. These protective mommies will actually confront the said photographer and tell them it is inappropriate and to stop. They are concerned that their fully clothed children's pictures will end up on the internet. I cannot for the life of me understand how Jon and Kate allow their precious charges to be filmed in private and partially nude moments. That goes against every maternal and paternal instinct to protect and secure
children. Eeeehhhhh!

Anonymous said...

"Hello!! It wasn't their birthday."

Did you listen really closely when the girls were eating their cupcakes and the boys were watching them licking their lips? Jon can be heard in the background saying "Happy Birthday." It may not have been their "real" birthday but the tups were made to believe BY THEIR DAD that this was a birthday celebration.

FIONA said...

Kate was walking by the side of the garage to the side of the house which leads to the backyard and there was a sign on the garage wall that I paused my DVR to read and it said that the backyard area is reserved for the Gosselin children



DO you mean is it like a kind way to say No Trespassing? Or is it just a sign?

FIONA said...

Laurie,

Your jewelry is beautiful. May I ask, did you first contact Kate and ask what Mady and Cara might like on their bracelets??? And if I understand correctly, via email, she told you the twins needed to learn to love????

Have you seen Kate wearing the items on TV?

I think many people were duped into thinking that this family was deserving of gifts, donations, etc...I don't think you should beat yourself up about. I sent her an email a couple of years ago too....just a friendly chatty kind. No repsonse, which I didn't expect. My point is, even those of us who take such an opposing stand now, wanted to believe her and like her. No one likes to be fooled, tricked or lied to.

JON AND KATE-imagine how differant things would have been had you been honest, and nice, and respectful, and loving....really, ya blew it.

moi said...

I saw an episode one day where it became clear. Kate was walking by the side of the garage to the side of the house which leads to the backyard and there was a sign on the garage wall that I paused my DVR to read and it said that the backyard area is reserved for the Gosselin children.

I see this is being read as "production crew, stay out, the backyard is for the kids only." I initially read this as "Other kids in the neighborhood, go play somewhere else."

dizzy_squishling_and_bean said...

I initially read this as "Other kids in the neighborhood, go play somewhere else."


Me too like those signs that say "this park is for residents only" that type of thing...if the bathroom isnt even a private place I seriously doubt the backyard is...they probably arent allowed to play back there in fear of grass stains.

FIONA said...

I agree....keepout stragler neighbor children. They do have the wonderful play structure they we barely see being used. Maybe too many mangy neighbor kids have tried to play on it...no fence and all. Which I have never understood. 8 kids, no fence=dumb

It would be soooo easy for Kate to open up the sliding glass door and say "go play"....and then when b-4 they come back in she could hose em down. Really Kate...that would make things easier. I am afraid the reason she doesn't do that is because of the, the, you know, THE GRASS!!!! AHHHHH!!!! Imagine the STAINS!!! OH MY GAWD!

shaking my head, agian

K.C. said...

Laurie,

What a wonderful thing you did for Kate and the girls. You sound like a really sweet person! I too was fooled by her initially. I am very thankful to this blog and to the people who contribute to it for helping me see the truth.

By the way, your jewelry is beautiful!

Leslie said...

I totally read that sign as a note to the production crew personally. I do remember they used to have signs all over the house that I don't see as much anymore. It could have been a note to neighbourhood kids I guess, but at the same time, maybe it's not a coincidence that we don't see them playing back there anymore and there is such a sign. Guess we can't know really. It is admittedly odd that they play in that driveway with an amazing yard like that.

I dunno...Neighborhood kids don't often wander into people's yards (or maybe they do and we just didn't in my area) but my money is on it being a production note. It wasn't a sign so much as it was a piece of paper taped to the wall.

Anonymous said...

"I totally read that sign as a note to the production crew personally. I do remember they used to have signs all over the house that I don't see as much anymore."

I noticed the beautiful playset too and thought it was odd the kids were never filmed playing on it. CLICK!!! A plausible explanation is it was yet another freebie that has to be somehow shown on the show. What other reason could there be to film a playset with no one playing on it.

Anonymous said...

Not so odd to be playing in the driveway. Can't ride bikes in the grass, the lunch tables are under cover from the sun, can do projects on the tables and everything is handly.

Anonymous said...

They have been shown playing on it before. They have stated that they prefer the front because they have the driveway to ride their bikes, little cars, wagons, etc.

Anonymous said...

Laurie,
I agree with the other posters, your jewelry is beautiful! It was very generous of you to send some of your pieces to Kate, Cara and Mady. I'm sorry your experience with her wasn't very good.

Anonymous said...

Can someone explain to me why Jon never seems to need to work anymore? I know he is working for Beth's husband, but what in the world is he doing that he is always home at all hours of the day and night?

Anonymous said...

Jon "works" out of his closet office....mostly I assume he trolls the internet looking to see who is dissing on them an also answering emails and such hehe.

Adam Bomb 1701 said...

Why would Jon quit a government job? I have one, and have for 30 years. The pay isn't great (but it's a little better than before.) But the benefits - a pension, relative job security, and the best of all - superb HEALTH INSURANCE for him, her and the kids, until they're at least 18. Kate probably bully-boyed him into quitting, as a government job doesn't have the status she seems to crave. No matter. It will be their cross to bear WHEN (not if) they divorce. I already feel sorry for Jon, as his child support payments will be enormous.