Reading words into our posts

I find many replies to our posts and comments on this blog take what a few of us post as our concerns, or passing conversation regarding the Gosselin children and put words into our mouths stating we are claiming "abuse" with every comment or concern we write about. I would like to see how many incidental posts and replies here are really talking about claims of physical abuse, rather than poor decisions from the foolish antics, decisions and behavior we may see Jon and Kate make as parents. We are simply discussing the fact that they have put themselves on television and open themselves up to public scrutiny with their immature and self-absorbed style of parenting. Any family signing contracts to be on television week after week, year after year would open themselves up to the same type of conversation and scrutiny. I know that in our everyday lives we all do things that may have not been the best choice at the time, but I'm sure most of us try to learn and grow and change from those mistakes within the privacy and protection of our own sweet anonymity. I have to say, however, that some people (J&K) create so much more content than others and should expect to be the topic of such conversation if television is where they decide to go with their drama! Get over yourselves, Jon & Kate and sheeple, if the bad press is "emotionally disturbing" to you, you have no one to blame but yourselves. We have seen you emotionally disturb your kids every week with behavior that may have happened in my home just a few times a year when my children were little! (See? I admitted to some drama, myself. Did I use the word abuse? I know that in replies to this post, it will come up.) As I posted previously, it's all in the degrees.

Some of us do have concerns about the stressful schedule that seems to make an already tightly strung, self-absorbed and not-too-bright mother louder and more out of control toward her children and husband than might be without the marriage of Kate and Figure 8, and scheduling that may be exploiting circumstances of these children's lives. Our concerns are, of course, for the Gosselin children, but also those children that may follow in the industry.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Again, and this is meant as respectfully as possible, I promise...I think that the concerns for the children are legitimate in some respects. I'm not one of the "sheeple" who is a blind J&K fan, but calling Kate a fool and stupid for not knowing much about golf is just petty, mean-spirited & has nothing at all to do with her parenting abilities.

I mean, I guess some of the point of the site is to be "snarky", but when does that cross the line? Instead of mere observation and comment, some posters seem to actually rejoice in her lack of relationship with her parents, her husband's obvious disdain for her, and various other rather sad aspects of her life. Concern for the children is understandable, cattiness is not.

Yes, by signing the contract, allowing the cameras, collecting the checks, she has opened herself up to the scrutiny, I agree. But we shouldn't cross the line from scrutinizing into pointlessly demonizing. It undercuts the stated concern for the kids.

Just my 2 cents, which is no more valuable than anyone else's 2.

Serena said...

Just my 2 cents, which is no more valuable than anyone else's 2.

I have no problem with your 2 cents, it was a reasonable post. :)

There are many different contributors to this blog, both in the main entries and in the comments. All those people should not be lumped together as "the GWoP whackos and nutjobs", because each of us has a different, unique reason for spending time reading and writing for this blog.

While I have plenty of disdain for Jon and Kate as individuals, as a couple, and certainly as parents, I really only take issue with their dishonesty and hypocritical public life. Most of my own focus is on the ongoing exploitation of the children and what can be done about it.

Anonymous said...

I don't have a problem with snark against John and Kate but I do have a problem with people who defend J&K being called "sheeple" and being told to "get over themselves." Yeah. Using language like that really gives you the right to criticize J&K on how they talk to each other and their children. To get respect, you have to show respect. It's post like this that really show that the people who run this blog are no better than J&K.

Serena said...

It's post like this that really show that the people who run this blog are no better than J&K.

What one particular post "shows you" does not apply to "the people" who run this blog -- it applies to the single individual who wrote that one particular post.

Anonymous said...

I'm "anonymous" #1 BTW (:

Point taken that this is not a blog with a single agenda or author. The posts definitely differ in tone, so apologies to anyone who tries to avoid pettiness in their content. Didn't mean to paint with quite such a large brush.

Serena said...

Point taken that this is not a blog with a single agenda or author. The posts definitely differ in tone, so apologies to anyone who tries to avoid pettiness in their content. Didn't mean to paint with quite such a large brush.

Now that's a class act, thank you. :)

WatchOverThem said...

I'm sorry if I offend about the sheeple comment, it may have been overboard on my end, but please realize that it comes from me after being lumped into a category of posters that "hate Jon and Kate and say they are child abusers". I could remove it now, but also my bad...a little too late. I don't think there are many of us here, that hate Jon and Kate, maybe just dislike the behavior that they choose. I was using a phrase that has been coined to describe those that agree with and "love" Jon and Kate and all they do, my bad for lumping all into a one-word phrase when there are many degrees and opinions. I don't think that anything that I wrote takes away my right to criticize areas that I see as a problem with a family that puts themselves out for all to see and comment about, one way or another. I don't hate Jon and Kate, I only disagree with the way they handle themselves and probable deceptive messages they give, in addition to the child exploitation issues I have spoken about in the past. I put a lot of thought, observation and research into what I write and I don't think I've been overly disrespectful. I also think that if people were to read all of my posts, they would find very little disrespect involving any individual, perhaps only disrespect and dissagreemant with the situation and circumstance, along with hope that these situations and circumstances will improve.

Anonymous said...

What's the singular of "sheeple"? (:

Seriously, though. I don't think any mature person sees a problem with raising the level of debate/conversation/whatever-you-want-to-call-it around here. I think that's why you see such a distinction between the posters and their tones.

In my experience, holding a mirror up to someone's misbehavior rarely yields positive results in the short term. I can only guess that J&K have been wounded by the legitimate criticisms as well as the downright nasty ones, and are in total defensive mode right now. In time, with maturity (they are SO young to have that many children, whether or not they chose it is immaterial at this point)and help from God, I'll bet they try to improve their parenting techniques.

Since J&K profess Christianity, I'd like to add this: As a Christian, I can honestly say that whenever I'm in the wrong, God convicts me of it (meaning He brings it to my attention, I guess). I have free will, so I can choose to ignore Him, but that usually ends up biting me you-know-where. Hopefully they're in the getting bitten in the butt stage right now & will move out of it into good decision-making soon!

WatchOverThem said...

Great post, thanks anon.

Anonymous said...

watchoverthem

I think its a good point that not everyone on here shares the exact same position, and the exact same reason for being here. However, as to reading the word abuse into your particular words, that might come from the fact that you, yourself, have posted a blog entry entitled "Degrees of Abuse and Exploitation." By its title it assumes that you feel that (at least to some degree) the Gosselin children are being abused and exploited. The rest of the entry is dedicated to how the Gosselins are behaving inappropriately, so inappropriately that you as a CASA would get involved if it was within your jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure, from what I have read, that the abuse discussion came directly from that discussion.

If I missed other entries where it was "read into" you entries or there were other accusations (not the best word I know) toward the group as to use of the word abuse I apologize. I've only read a couple of the most recent entries and comments.

FIONA said...

I think alot of us to believe that there does exsist a "level" of emotional abuse. It is what it is...that's the word for it. But don't just hang on to that one word....and just because it is a different degree or type of abuse, does not mean it is less or more relevant. The blog owners have been very clear and upfront in their agenda here. Anyone who chooses to misread, misconsture the content, probably has no business on this blog. This is one of my causes...it is a good thing that so many people care about the Gosselin kids.

WatchOverThem said...

I can see your point regarding the "Degrees of Abuse and Exploitation" title. I have concentrated my posts on the exploitation issues with regard to filming and scheduling demands and income issues/child labor issues as well as emotional turmoil issues with these children more than the physical abuse side of things. Exploitation IS abuse, constant emotional turmoil IS abuse, abuse doesn't have to be physical in nature to harm a child long term. That being said, I still think there are issues that can be discussed as far as exploitation and emotional stress with these kids that doesn't need to be considered full-blown physical abuse. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any relief or protection offered to these children or others like them in the future, in my opinion. A child doesn't need to bleed to be hurt. It seems that on both sides of this story people are looking for black and white statements, such as:

- How can you say these children are abused, they are loved?

- How can you say Jon and Kate are good parents, they fight and yell and hate each other?

I do think Jon and Kate love their kids, I scratch my head and wonder why they don't cherish them and protect them more from the big business of television and the stress it is putting on the entire family.

laura linger said...

Quick suggestion...

...stop accepting anonymous comments. Trust me, in the long run, it will make your life a lot easier. I had to turn off the comments entirely over at my blog because anonymous commenters got out of control, and I just grew tired of it.

Anonymous said...

"Sheeple"? Yep, that's original.

So...let me get this straight. You can handle nitpicking everything Jon and Kate do, but can't deal when people nitpick your own words? The hypocrisy is rather amusing.

WatchOverThem said...

Thank you anon, for your post and opinion. I do wish you had read through the comments to see that there have been comments and discussion regarding my choice of words in several areas, and my response to that? I take a hit when appropriate, and re-think the words I have used. I won't slam you, it doesn't improve anything.

I appreciate comments that further the dialog, rather than slamming a conversation into ending unproductively.

Not a Sheeple said...

My board name is obviously going to offend a person or two so I'll explain. Yes, I'm one of the original founders of the blog. I was fiddling around and at least I had no idea our little blog would become noticed so I didn't use a lot of thought in the name I picked. But it is true all the same. I am definitely not a sheeple. I am not ashamed of that.

To me a sheeple is a person who accepts what they are told without thinking about it or questioning it. Just an example would be when Kate says at the organic farm that she lets the kids pick an organic snack because it will be healthy. Kate wasn't thinking or she'd realize sugar is sugar and still not a good idea on a regular basis. I've run into quite a few fans of the show who follow Kate and Jon with that same kind of unquestioning acceptance. Whatever they do is right and must be defended against any and all criticism. I can't go there. If fans or posters like that would just acknowledge that yes there is room for improvement or change, I wouldn't have ever thought about the term sheeple.

I'm not a frequent poster as others are much more eloquent than I'll ever be. I don't think Jon and Kate are horrendously horrible in Kate's words, but I do believe they could use improvement. Since they decided to put themselves and their parenting on TV, I'll feel free to comment.